Jodi Lyn O'Keefe | Strong Female Leads

Jodi Lyn OKeefe Strong Female Leads

Jodi Lyn O'Keefe (She's All That, Prison Break, Hit the Floor) is a dream of a human being who lets me gush about my favorite roles of hers as I mathematically prove she has the best career — from being a comedy powerhouse to the perfect kind of villain — and she shares the romantic gesture to end all gestures, plus gives me even more reasons to adore Heretic Parfum. This show breaks down at points because I am laughing uncontrollably, what a joy!

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Heart's Desire: Black Swan vs Deadly Illusions

Black Swan vs Deadly Illusions

Two movies about a woman in a high pressure environment who is unsure of what is real and what is not, and must come to terms with her desires — it's Black Swan vs Deadly Illusions.

Read The Episode

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two women in high-pressure environments who are unsure of what is real and what is not and must come to terms with their desires. It's Black Swan versus Deadly Illusions.

Black Swan

Nina is a talented but unstable ballerina on the verge of stardom. Pushed to the breaking point by her artistic director and a seductive rival, Nina's grip on reality slips, plunging her into a waking nightmare.

This movie came out in 2010, has an 85% on Rotten Tomatoes. Natalie Portman won the Oscar for Best Actress. The film was also nominated for Best Picture, Best Directing, Best Cinematography, and Best Film Editing.

These were the Oscars where everyone turned on Anne Hathaway as she tried to save the sinking ship that was getting anything useful out of James Franco. How dare we turn on her. The Social Network beat Black Swan for Film Editing. Are you kidding me? Inception got Cinematography — fine, whatever, because buildings are caving in, but Black Swan was better. Directing and Picture were given to The King's Speech, which I didn't see, but I bet it was about a turd. I will not be looking further into it. Please do not inform me.

Black Swan deserves all the awards and recognition for being a truly compelling look at a woman forced to both repress and expose herself in equal turn for the acceptance of those around her. Natalie Portman does an amazing job. I love this movie. I saw it in theaters, I think twice, and it's stuck with me. I am offended that it only has an 85% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Natalie trained for a year as a dancer to prepare for the role, paid for the training out of her own pocket until the film found investors. Darren Aronofsky attributed the film getting made at all to Portman's dedication and enthusiasm. I think you can tell when an actor has a true passion for a role, and that carries through here. Out of all the awards nominations the film received, Natalie Portman won every single Best Actress category — Oscars, Golden Globes, every single one she was nominated for, she won.

Her performance is one of the most incredible I've seen — the way she goes within herself, the vulnerability, the sadness. To contrast that with the woman who sang one of my favorite songs, the Natalie Rap. She has range. She's brilliant.

Natalie as Nina is desperate for the approval of Tomah — as she says, Tomah, spelled Thomas — played by Vincent Cassel. He heads up the ballet troupe and assigns the roles. While Natalie is a talented dancer, he believes she doesn't have the darkness or sensuality to play the Black Swan and therefore cannot play the multifaceted Swan Queen in their upcoming Swan Lake. She struggles to open herself up and be less regimented, and this isn't helped by Tomah's sexually aggressive nature. She has complicated feelings for him — a schoolgirl crush she refuses to acknowledge when pressed about it by Mila Kunis.

Mila Kunis is perfection in this film as well. There is an easiness to Mila as Lily that is something I absolutely covet. She was so perfect for this role. To get the viewer into the space Natalie inhabits — the envy, the interest. Mila is the kind of person where you just want to be in her orbit.

Although it is fully psycho when she goes into the bathroom Natalie is in, goes to pee, takes off her underwear and hands it to Natalie to hold. I would be distraught if that happened to me. But then when Mila goes to Natalie's house later to apologize — because she had really pushed Natalie's boundaries, talked to Tomah about her — I loved that. She recognizes that even though Natalie is really intense and not nice to her, she still hurt her and tries to make up for it.

She goes to her apartment, invites her out. Natalie takes her up on it. While they're out at a bar, Mila offers her drugs. And I too would take a strange pill for Mila Kunis. I think any one of us would. This is the only fun girls' night out Natalie has had maybe ever. So in her mind it becomes more than it is. She has the hallucination of going home and having sex with Mila Kunis.

Even the response when she finds out it was not real — she goes to Mila and is like, okay, last night can never happen again. And Mila's like, what happened last night? I went home with a dude. Oh my God, did you have a dream about me? And she's not even really mean about it. She's just kind of like, was I good? There's such an acceptance with her — she's not judgmental, she's just open. And it's this ease that Natalie can never achieve.

A lot of that is due to the way she was raised. Barbara Hershey plays Natalie's overbearing mom, and she's so frightening. Perhaps the scariest part of the film, besides the skin strip Natalie peels off her finger, which I still cannot look at no matter how many times I see the movie. There's a theory that the mother was possibly molesting her, and even if we don't take that as fact, the control her mother exerts is sickening. It's very Carrie — this perverted, twisted idea of love being used as a weapon to keep Natalie in line.

Although she wants her daughter to be a success, she encourages and allows for this odd regression. Constantly calling the receptionist at the theater to find out Natalie's whereabouts. And when Natalie gets the Swan Queen role, she says to her mom, he picked me, mommy, and it just makes my skin crawl. Then her mom gets this full sheet cake and Natalie's like, I'm trying to be ballerina-body, I can't eat a sheet cake. And Barbara Hershey goes to throw it away. And then it's like, no, I'm sorry, I didn't — I'm just so proud. It's this constant push of control.

This relationship is so stressful, so tense. Uncut Gems who? This is tension. You see why Natalie is living so much of her life internally and why her view of the world becomes distorted when this is how she was raised — to never feel safe, to always wonder when the other shoe was going to drop.

I was also thrilled to see Winona Ryder as a ballerina at the company who has passed the age where people want to see her perform. She's put out to pasture and accuses Natalie of sleeping with Tomah to take her job. Ksenia Solo, aka Kenzi from Lost Girl, appears as another ballerina. Sebastian Stan is one of the guys Natalie and Mila meet at the bar. I had totally forgotten that.

Here's one problem with this movie: Darren Aronofsky. I am not denying he's a genius in some of the ways we consider people geniuses. But a little piece of trivia from IMDB: Natalie Portman revealed that Aronofsky would subtly try to pit her and Mila Kunis against each other during filming, in an attempt to increase the on-screen tension. This included keeping the two actresses separated and sending each of them intimidating text messages about each other's performance that day. However, according to Kunis, this backfired because they were good friends before filming. Whenever they got wind the other was doing really well, they would respond in congratulatory support, not rivalry.

It's a job, Darren Aronofsky. Don't play mind games. These are excellent actors who can do the job without some nonsense you're trying to put in their head.

Also, IMDB has director trademarks. One for this movie was the film Perfect Blue — an overhead shot of Nina in the bathtub is an exact replica of a shot in the Japanese anime thriller. Years before, when making Requiem for a Dream, Aronofsky bought the remake rights to Perfect Blue just to use that one sequence. Black Swan itself contains numerous similarities to Perfect Blue, though Aronofsky has denied it was an influence. You already bought this movie to use in something else and now you're like, no, that movie has nothing to do with my work. Come on, dude.

Although the film was never marketed as such, Aronofsky has always maintained it was meant to be a psychological horror film. I would say yes — this is the kind of thriller that made me appreciate the genre and realize it can be layered and meaningful and truly frightening. Black Swan is one of my all-time favorite films.

Deadly Illusions

After a bestselling novelist suffering from writer's block hires a new nanny for her children, the line between fiction and reality starts to blur.

This came out in 2021, has a 13% on Rotten Tomatoes — but only eight official critics have reviewed it, so I don't think that's quite fair.

This is one of the timelier episodes of Tasteless. Deadly Illusions dropped last weekend as of this recording and Sam Hurley of Movie Reviews in 20Qs told me it existed and that it looked up my alley. I immediately pulled it up on IMDB and said, yes, it is. And yes, it was. What a film.

I have spoken before about this genre of thriller. Saying "erotic thriller" does always make me feel like a serial killer, but I don't know what else to call it. I would argue Black Swan could fall into the category as well. This was a type of thriller more prevalent in the eighties and nineties that peaked with Basic Instinct and had a late-nineties resurgence with ones aimed at a younger crowd — Cruel Intentions, Wild Things. It's this type of twisty thriller where there's a mystery and the best ones have women using their sexuality to get what they want — instead of it being something they're subjected to, they turn it on the oppressors.

Netflix has been circling this, wanting to bring back the fun twisty surprising psychological thriller with a little sex thrown in, and this is a perfect example.

As our star we have Kristin Davis. Charlotte was always my favorite on Sex and the City. Kristin Davis has shown again and again what a delight she is — between her very funny and supportive engagement with the Every Outfit on Sex and the City Instagram, which has this meme called Woke Charlotte where they correct problematic quotes from the show. Also, Kristin Davis is a big supporter of animals. She has dedicated herself to helping elephants through the Sheldrick Wildlife Trust. I just love her.

In this movie she is my favorite kind of character: an author who wrote a bestselling series of sexy thriller novels, but has basically retired from that to be with her family because she feels writing those books have been some of the unhappiest times of her life. Unfortunately her husband Dermot Mulroney does some bad business, so she has to take an offer to write another book in the series to get them some money. And she switches to full writer mode. The cigars, the robes, the cozy sweaters.

Kristin Davis's whole vibe in this movie is so cool. At one point she has her boots up on her writing desk smoking her giant cigar and I could just watch that for eight hours like a video of a Yule log. I have a Reddit thread bookmarked right now to find out where one of her sweaters is from — someone on a knitting subreddit was like, does anyone have the pattern for the sweater? Someone replied, I have this exact sweater. Three people have replied asking where they bought it. This person has not replied. It's been seven days. Please come back, Reddit user, and tell us where you bought the sweater.

Let's talk Dermot Mulroney. Hunk from My Best Friend's Wedding gets his full butt out in this movie. I like parity in my actor nudity — I want a lady butt, I want a man butt. Have it all in there. His relationship with Kristin is overall very refreshing. She says to him, what do you think about women who get plastic surgery? He goes, like fake boobs? And he kind of looks like, no, I don't want you to get fake boobs. She goes, maybe something else? He says, like a fake butt? And he mulls it over. They're kind of laughing. And he says, the hottest thing about you is you're brilliant and you're a wonderful mom to our kids.

Other than Dermot's betrayal with finances, this couple clearly likes each other and is into each other. They are going at it for half the movie. He is so attracted to her. They have such love for each other, such chemistry. It's not the usual — the wife is so busy, she doesn't pay enough attention, or the husband is stepping out with his secretary. No, they're equal partners.

In comes the nanny, with one big braid and different-colored bows and a beach cruiser bike and a lot of white-sock, white-sneaker combos. It is Greer Grammer. She seems like the perfect nanny — she loves reading and kids, is trying to make money for college, immediately has palpable sexual tension with Kristin Davis. All things that are great in an employee.

Greer spoon-feeds Kristin about 18 different foods and I love every moment of it. Honey, chili — yes, there's some sexy chili spoon-feeding. Who doesn't want that? And Greer plays Grace and she just feels so at home with this family. Kristin Davis is a great employer — she buys her bras, she hangs out with her. It seems like a really nice time at that house.

There's something about her that intrigues Kristin. We see Kristin talking to her friend, played by Shanola Hampton of Shameless — who is also a producer on this movie, which I have a lot of questions about. The only flaw in this movie is that there was not more of her. Kristin plays the role of slightly lascivious employer with such gusto. She straight up tells Shanola what's up. She doesn't hide it. She's like, I am very into my nanny. There isn't any shame surrounding it. Shanola asks, are you even into girls? Kristin goes, no, I just like that she'll do whatever I want. And Shanola is like, okay, well, keep working on your book.

So many of these types of thrillers rely on the husband and wife hating each other and lying to each other. That's not what happens here. Obviously Kristin doesn't tell her husband she's very attracted to the nanny, but she's also not secretive. I mean, yeah, they stop making out when the kids come in, but that's just being polite.

There are about 18 twists in this movie, some of which we will get into. But really you just need to watch it — it's on Netflix. And all you nitpickers who are like, what's the timeline of this movie? — shut your faces! If you want a timeline so bad, watch Memento, you turds.

This movie has one of the best visual gags I've seen in ages. There's an incident I'm not going to spoil, but you see Kristin look at the cover of what is very clearly a People magazine — same font and everything — but instead of People it says Persons, in the People font. I was really delighted by that.

Shared Themes

These films explore reality and our perception of it — how fantasy and nightmare can become more tangible and sometimes more desirable than the real world. Natalie and Kristin feel they can't trust their own memory of what has happened, because the world around them has a different view of it altogether.

Natalie in Black Swan is so overwhelmed by her drive to be the best. She is already an anxious person, so to be in a field where that's the crux of it, where there is such competition and it's so cutthroat — it's not good for her. It's not a supportive environment; it's one of pain and pushing yourself to the limit. Natalie's greatest enemy and roadblock is herself. She puts so much pressure on herself that every comment from someone else is a shot to her heart.

She sees her face plastered onto people passing her. She fights a vision of herself. She stabs herself with some glass. She's in a constant war with who she is, but projects it onto her battle with Mila Kunis — thinking this other dancer is her enemy instead of her own insecurities. Natalie is so fragile that each vision of betrayal, of being wronged, of death and destruction, pushes her closer to the edge. She doesn't know what is real and is constantly frightened, unsure of other people's motives. She sees feathers growing in on her back and tries desperately to pluck them out. She sees entire strips of her skin being torn away.

In Deadly Illusions, Kristin becomes lost in the world of her book. She writes tantalizing stories with twists and seduction and killers, and she finds herself living inside one when her nanny is a little too eager to please. She has visions of her husband and the nanny having sex on the kitchen counter, but then both deny it and Kristin is made to feel insane. She even accuses Shanola of having an eye on her husband. Shanola's like, we will talk later, you're being ridiculous because I danced with your weird husband.

Fantasy can be a place of escape and comfort as much as it can be intrusive and frightening. Natalie and Kristin experience both sides. Natalie finally finds release when she fantasizes about bringing Mila home — Mila represents a form of freedom and easiness that Natalie covets but can never quite achieve. Through Kristin's fantasies, she can take the weight of the world off her shoulders. She's adored and doted on by the young nanny who takes care of her as well as the children.

Black Swan and Deadly Illusions explore desire and sexuality in a way that is female-focused without centering their experience on gaining a man's approval. There's freedom and escape within these sexual relationships for each woman.

In Black Swan, Natalie is very closed off — in a state of arrested development, still living with her mom, focusing only on work and being the best. There's no easiness to her. It's why Tomah doesn't believe she can embody the Black Swan, but only the more virginal White Swan. It's clear Tomah has no problem wielding sexuality as a weapon — aggressively kissing Natalie, being thrilled by her biting him. He tells Natalie to go home and touch herself and she takes this assignment seriously, even though it's very inappropriate from her employer. But because she continues to be so afraid of being out of control, she can't turn off her brain. And when she finally does, her mom is there, just sleeping in the corner of her room. She doesn't have a lock on her door — she has a wooden dowel to keep her mom out.

It's not until her night out with Mila — drinking and doing drugs and having fun and not worrying about her career — that within her fantasy of sex with Mila, she's able to let go. She fights her mom, stands up for herself, takes what she wants.

There's an IMDB trivia fact I want to talk about here. An online rumor broke out shortly after the film's release claiming Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis took shots of tequila before shooting their sex scene and were drunk on screen. Kunis denied this, saying, I don't think we could have done that scene if we were intoxicated. There's something interesting and immensely frustrating here because we hear it a lot. When women have to kiss or have sex scenes, some rumor always comes out that they got drunk. We don't think that about man-on-woman sex scenes. There's something we see as other when it's two people of the same sex versus a heterosexual love scene.

Natalie wants the approval of Tomah, yes, but she wants to be Mila. She wants to feel that freedom. And that's the kind of person she can open herself up to.

In Deadly Illusions, Kristin Davis and Dermot Mulroney have so much chemistry. So Kristin can't figure out why she is so drawn to her nanny. But she comments a couple different times how intoxicating it is that she feels the nanny would clearly do anything for her.

In a life where she's so out of control in some ways — where her husband has lost their savings without her knowledge, where her book publishers constantly push for her to write what they want instead of what she feels is correct — in this relationship with the nanny, she has control. She's in charge. That power is potent and hard to ignore. With her husband, Kristin is taking care of him. With the nanny, she is being taken care of.

The nanny at one point — Kristin's in the bath — brings in rose petals and pours milk in the bath. Which I guess is okay? It seems bad. Maybe it's cream. Is that better or worse than milk? Are those the same thing? Either way, the dynamic is not something she has experienced as this high-profile author, as a mother to twins, as someone constantly holding things together. She hasn't just had someone dote on her like this.

Dermot has encouraged her to get help, to hire a nanny. He doesn't think any less of her for wanting that help as she focuses on work. But there is something so different and so important for Kristin in the nanny saying to her, let me make you happy. All I want to do is make you happy. There's no obligation there. Nothing is expected of her. Kristin and Dermot are such equal partners in so many ways, but a lot of the labor of fixing things falls on Kristin. So there's such a different type of freedom with the nanny.

Later in the kitchen when Kristin is trying to talk about her tenth anniversary with Dermot, the nanny is all up on her trying to get a piece of her — you deserve this. Kristin can just take and take without giving anything back. There's no emotional labor. She took her bra shopping and just got one little grope in and the nanny just went about business as usual. This nanny has made it so easy, has just offered herself up to Kristin. Whereas in her relationship with Dermot, Kristin feels like she has to pick up the pieces when he crashes and burns their life — and this is not the first time he has done this.

Neither relationship in both films is necessarily a measure of attraction. Yes, obviously Mila Kunis and Greer Grammer are good-looking. But it's more what they represent. In Black Swan, Mila is easy, carefree, confident, without guile. She doesn't play the same games. She takes what she wants. In Deadly Illusions, Greer is simple, innocent, pliable, and she looks at Kristin with such adoration.

We also see the other side — we see Greer with Dermot where she is aggressive, she bosses him around, because he doesn't get that from Kristin. She brings whatever the other person needs. One of the most strangely intimate moments is when Kristin takes off her bathing suit to hop in the pool and then gestures for the nanny to put it on. Which she does. The nanny puts on someone else's wet bathing suit, which — okay. But Kristin sees herself in the nanny. You see this when she picks out the bras and talks about youth being wasted on the young, wishing she had more confidence in her body when she was Greer's age. And in Black Swan, Natalie Portman sees her own face on Mila Kunis while they're having sex. They are both working through their relationship to themselves in a way that would not be possible with a man.

What Deadly Illusions Does Better

Natalie in Black Swan is a very specific character — someone so stilted in so many ways that despite her immense talents, it's as though all her regular social and emotional IQ have been converted to regimented physicality, not even general comfort in her body. Whereas Kristin in Deadly Illusions is more balanced — an adult struggling with the weight placed on her shoulders as a mother, a wife, the breadwinner. Natalie never truly grows into a full-fledged person, while Kristin has no choice but to explore who she can be in relation to what has happened to her.

In Black Swan, Natalie is not living a regular life. She's raised by an overbearing mother who infantilizes her even as she berates her, making Natalie unable to take care of herself and yet mocking her for that same inability. Each time Natalie starts to break out of the shell — going out with Mila, drinking, staying up late — this step forward is met with two steps back. She's apologetic the next morning, distraught over what she believes has happened.

There's a catharsis in Natalie's death at the end — the acknowledgment that the person she stabbed is in fact herself. She dies in this truly perfect moment. But there's no moving forward for Natalie. There's no true experienced growth. She isn't able to integrate the two sides of herself. Instead, as she starts to achieve that integration, that is how she dies. She cannot live with both sides of herself.

In Deadly Illusions, Kristin makes her choices and stands by them. She's not regretful, simply confused over the turn things take when she discovers Greer's true face. I appreciate that she stays in the nanny's life at the end — because obviously things go down with the nanny. It's called Deadly Illusions. In the promo pictures, the nanny is seductively whispering in her ear. Obviously bad stuff goes down. But despite what the nanny does to her family, she feels a connection and a fondness for this girl who has been treated with such cruelty by her own parental figures.

Kristin doesn't feel shame. She simply adjusts her perspective when presented with the rest of the facts about who this woman is. She doesn't begrudge Dermot for being seduced by the nanny as well — she was too. And despite the ambiguous ending, I do believe Kristin has achieved some sort of happiness and growth. We see she has finished her book, a woman at the office is reading it intently, and Kristin has channeled what has happened to her into that work of art for others to enjoy. Instead of penning the last pages and falling to her swan-like death, she sets to work supporting the people in her life and providing forgiveness to the young girl whose actions were not quite her own.

Forgiveness is something Natalie never is able to give herself. She acknowledges the two sides of who she is, but I don't think she ever fully loves and accepts the pieces of herself that have kept her safe amidst her mental turmoil. Kristin's forgiveness of Greer — as well as of herself — was a really interesting element that allowed the characters to not be black and white.

Natalie ends Black Swan proud of her accomplishment — performing the Black Swan serves as a culmination of her work. All the time she put into this, the way she ruined her body and her mind. There's this continued thing in movies where people can't have balance. Liz Lemon's whole bit on 30 Rock about wanting women to be able to have it all, but they can't. I get that it takes 10,000 hours to become a master of something, and it's admirable to have such dedication. But it's also inhuman. We see Natalie as this otherworldly waif — this ballerina lacking humanity in a lot of ways, all the most timid, scared pieces. Every aspect of her life is so controlled that I don't ever feel I know who she is. Is she anyone? Is she just this combination of skill and fear?

In Deadly Illusions, Kristin becomes involved in writing again because of necessity. She has to support her family, they need money. She's an incredible writer whose books have done very well and clearly gotten her this nice house with a lot of very nice outdoor spaces. But I like seeing someone whose interest isn't at the expense of everything else. You can be passionate about something, skilled at something, while balancing other things. Yeah, she's writing her book by hand with a fountain pen onto various sheets of paper, and someone's going to have to type that up later. But she's not worried about it. She's going to write some pages and then go lay by the pool topless. She's got a life to lead.

So many movies about being the best are just — this is it, this is all you can do. Black Swan, Whiplash, I, Tonya. These people have no life skills and are weirdos because all they can do is this one thing. I like the way Kristin's skill — this way she's able to tap into a book — is also her downfall in that she dives too deep, becomes too involved, and it changes how she reacts to things as she gets sucked into the book. But she can turn that off. She chooses to dive back into this darkness for the good of her family. There's something about that choice I find really satisfying — especially because she lives with the results and doesn't shame herself for what has happened.

I hope you will watch Deadly Illusions on Netflix so we can talk about it. Hit me up at @tastelesspod. Tell me which of Kristin Davis's sweater-plus-cigar combos was your favorite. If you know where any of those sweaters are from and can tell me before the people on Reddit, please do.

Glimmer of Hope: Children of Men vs Underworld: Blood Wars

Children of Men vs Underworld Blood Wars

Two movies where survival of a species comes down to one bloodline and hope is finally carved out amidst the despair — it's Children of Men vs Underworld: Blood Wars.

Read The Episode

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two movies where survival of a species comes down to one bloodline and hope is finally carved out amidst the despair. It's Children of Men versus Underworld: Blood Wars.

Children Of Men

In 2027, in a chaotic world in which women have somehow become infertile, a former activist agrees to help transport a miraculously pregnant woman to a sanctuary at sea.

This came out in 2006, has a 92% on Rotten Tomatoes, directed by Alfonso Cuarón. It was nominated for three Oscars — Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Cinematography, and Best Film Editing.

This movie is about a very sad England where everything is falling apart. It's a post-apocalyptic gray sadness because babies stopped being born 18 years ago. And everyone is just like, okay, I guess F it then, we're going to go berserk, because babies aren't being born anymore. This is it. This is the end of our lineage.

Our protagonist Theo is played by Clive Owen. He's a regular office guy whose only real friend is Michael Caine doing a John Lennon impression. There's a scene at the beginning where Clive is at Michael Caine's house and he's just absentmindedly petting this cat. And then he starts petting it maybe a little too aggressively, unless the cat really likes him. I was so focused on this cat and trying to decide if he was petting him an appropriate amount that I noticed the different shots had the cat facing different ways. It was a continuity error.

This animal thing is a through line though. We find out that all animals love Clive Owen. Some dogs come up to him and someone's like, those dogs don't like anyone. And then this little kitten tries to climb up his pant leg, but he doesn't even reach down and pet it — which is the least believable part of this movie. If a little kitten came up to you and was tugging at your pant leg, you would just look down at it and be like, go about your business? Scoop that kitten up.

Clive Owen had a wife and a kid, but the kid died. So he's just kind of aimless. England seems to be one of the places left standing — there was a nuclear attack on New York. People truly went bananas when they realized no more children were being born. Michael Caine is the comic relief and does a pull-my-finger joke immediately in the film.

Spoiler: Michael Caine euthanizes his wife and his dog, which I get why he does, but come on, figure out a way to save the dog. But it's important to note that he dies farting. In this gritty exploration of humanity, Michael Caine dies farting, because he is surrounded by gunmen and he's like, pull my finger, and reaches a finger out and then gets shot. And I can only assume he died farting.

We're introduced to baby Diego, who was the last baby born, the youngest person on earth. I thought this was fascinating — seeing the news coverage of him. He dies, and the nation is in mourning. The world is in mourning. He was the last baby born and had this celebrity thrust on him that he did not want and just couldn't handle. We learn there are legal suicide kits called Quietus. There's a lot of little touches. I'm going to have to read the book because I liked all the little pieces of lore, the world that is existing.

Clive Owen gets kidnapped and brought to the hideout of the Fishes, this rebel group trying to help the refugees that England is railing against. The Fishes want equal rights for immigrants in Britain, which is great. Fishes is not a cool name for a movement, but it's a good cause. Julianne Moore plays Julian, Clive Owen's ex-wife, leader of the Fishes. She has a nose stud and I didn't know that was a look. IMDB trivia says Alfonso Cuarón wanted an actress who had the credibility of leadership, intelligence, and independence.

At one point they're in a car together, fleeing with the pregnant woman, and they play a game. Julianne Moore is like, no one's ever been able to do it like you, Clive. And he's like, I can't, not now, not in front of these people. And she's like, no, we're going to do it, and she spits a ping pong ball into his mouth and he spits it back into her mouth. And then Julianne Moore — spoiler — dies. And then I was like, yeah, I bet this is why I didn't like this movie. A dog dies and Julianne Moore dies. What are we doing here?

I do hope that Alfonso was like, Julianne Moore, you are such a credibly intelligent, independent woman. Could I get you to pretend to spit a ping pong ball into this man's mouth? And she was like, okay.

So she captures Clive because she needs him to get transport papers from his cousin Danny Huston, whose son is Ed Westwick — Chuck from Gossip Girl — playing with this weird hand robot. And I was like, what are you doing here? He gets the papers but has to travel with the person. Julianne Moore gets killed. And at the hideout with Chiwetel Ejiofor, who I also love, Clive Owen wanders around and finds Kee — who is the girl he's helping. Claire-Hope Ashitey is this actress, and she is the lynchpin. She is pregnant. She is the first pregnant woman in 18 years.

When Clive Owen finds her in the barn and she reveals she's pregnant, he is shocked. She plays this role — it's so interesting — later she talks about realizing she was pregnant, that she had never been taught about it. She's young enough that fertility had stopped before she got into school, so there was no reason to teach it. But she just knew. I would have loved more of this, of the journey Kee has taken.

I also love her friendship with the Fish that is looking out for her, played by Pam Ferris, aka Miss Trunchbull from Matilda, who has an eyebrow ring. Everybody in this movie has a questionable piercing. Pam Ferris is keeping Kee safe and is such an ally to her — her and Clive Owen are a great duo in protecting Kee.

Then we find out things aren't as they seem. Chiwetel has some secret stuff going on. Charlie Hunnam has some secret stuff going on. Chiwetel's guys killed Julianne Moore because they don't want the baby taken to the Human Project — they want to keep the baby for political gain. So Clive takes Kee and Pam Ferris and flees in the night. Later, Chiwetel sees the baby in a war zone and he's crying because it evokes something in him. It's really interesting. The baby is born and it evokes something in people.

A couple of questions. One: why are future movies so neutral slash brown-looking? It's so gray. Is that just because it's England? I'm not interested. Too gray. Two: we see the destruction society has faced. If we were all infertile for, let's say, 20 years, would that actually give the earth time to reset? In this movie it's been 18 and people are still there just being awful. What if we just stopped having babies for 20 years and let the earth chill? Cut down on global warming? Would society crumble? Would someone nuke New York City if we couldn't have babies? I think it's such a weird, interesting conclusion — that without a hope for people to come, without people carrying on your line, you would just totally go anarchist.

The movie is currently on Peacock for free, where there's an ad every five minutes, which really takes you out of a drama. But you get what you get.

Underworld: Blood Wars

Vampire death dealer Selene (Kate Beckinsale) fights to end the eternal war between the Lycan clan and the Vampire faction that betrayed her.

This movie came out in 2016. It has a 21% on Rotten Tomatoes.

I have covered a couple of Kate Beckinsale movies on this show. My love for her is well known. Love and Friendship is such a good movie. I'll watch anything she's in. Underworld is her big blockbuster franchise. She plays Selene, a vampire who has extra powers because she drank blood from the original immortal — so she can go in sunlight, she's extra strong. Before she got those powers, she was just a super cool death dealer. By the way, the original immortal got his powers because of a genetic mutation when a plague hit. So just like post-COVID, I would love some vampire powers. I want to be able to go outside. I want to jump real high, but I don't want to land hard. I don't want to land and break the concrete. I want agility. I want to be like a cat. So COVID Santa, if the genetic plague mutation could give me that, please.

We get to see Selene fight people and be cool and have fangs and blue eyes. I will say, some people look so cool with vampire teeth and some people don't. Kate looks very cool. But sometimes they have those little teeth and they're talking around them and you're like, boy, this wasn't meant for you. I worried that would be me. That if I had vampire teeth, I would talk dumb and no one would respect my vampire powers.

This movie further proves that an askance glance from Kate Beckinsale is one of the most important things committed to film. I hope we've sent a clip of one up in one of those space stations that have every seed in there so we can start a new society. Like they've got all the types of flowers — I hope there's just a clip of Kate Beckinsale in one of the Underworld movies doing an askance glance at someone.

I saw this movie in theaters. I was overjoyed when Kate Beckinsale comes into battle with the biggest, thickest coat. Yes, she has an iconic leather look, blah blah, but this is better. She comes sliding in, there's snow, her coat is so big. It's amazing. The action in this one is some of my favorite — I think because a lot of these movies, like Resident Evil, Blade, tend to be dark in color palette. I liked the contrast of this snowy tundra. The snow, the ice, that vibe. Very fun to see fight scenes in.

So this is movie five. Prior to this, Kate has gotten her cool powers, lived as a vampire for centuries, and then humans figured out there are vampires and werewolves and started purging them. They froze Kate in cryogenics. When she's unfrozen, turns out she had a kid with Scott Speedman. The kid was like 12. She finds out — this is prior to this film — and honestly, I know you're like, how can I watch this if I haven't seen the others? They do a little recap at the beginning. I had only seen the first one years prior when I went and saw this in theaters. You don't need to know everything. It's fine.

What you need to know: the kid is born, she doesn't even know because she's frozen. Right prior to this movie, the kid is like, I gotta go. You can't know where I am. You can't be my mom because everyone wants my really strong blood. If you know where I am, it endangers you and me. So that's where we're at. Kate's daughter Eve is in hiding because she has very pure blood — the father, Scott Speedman, is this relative down the line of the original immortal's family. She's very powerful.

A new Lycan leader, Marius, wants Eve's blood to get stronger. Semira, the vampire, wants Kate's blood to get stronger. And Kate is just trying to process not being in her daughter's life.

Semira, aka Lara Pulver, gets to play this over-the-top villain. She's still hurting over her mentor Victor being killed by Kate in the first movie. She's not as strong as Kate, so she wants to drink Kate's blood. She sets up this whole ambush to get Kate excommunicated, disgrace her amongst their people, and steal her blood. At one point she's drinking Kate's blood out of this big chalice and then throws the rest on the ground in triumph. Like, what a waste. You just threw all that blood on the ground. Who's going to clean that up, Semira?

Semira wants power, she wants respect, and she's trying to manipulate her way into the good graces of the council, the high elders. Meanwhile Marius and the Lycan clan are going berserk trying to get Kate and fighting vampires. Vampires and werewolves are enemies, obviously.

By the way — werewolves. They have never succeeded in making them super hot. Even in Twilight, Jacob is such a baby face. Obviously he's a good-looking guy, but he just looks so young. I think it's because vampires just pop their little teeth out but otherwise they're still gorgeous actors. Werewolves are big, hairy, gross animals. So we don't think they're hot. Which is good.

Theo James plays David, a vampire and Kate's only real ally. His dad is played by Charles Dance, who helps him and Kate after really screwing Kate over in a previous film. So it's nice that he joins Theo in saving her from the robot that is sucking her blood out courtesy of Semira.

My only complaint about this movie: a lot of people stand in water in pants and robes. They just get in water with full fabric coverage. Ooh, that's tough. They're going to get out of the water. Their calves are going to be wet. Pants clinging to them.

This is a fun series and they keep teasing that another one is coming. I do like the point this one left off — I think it's a satisfying and fitting end for Selene and for Eve, for her family. Selene battles those who want her blood, battles those who want Eve. She never breaks. They're trying to get Eve's location from her and she doesn't know it. It kills her that she doesn't know it, but it's also so good that she doesn't. She protects the people that are here. She's a good person. She's a good vampire, even when everything has been stripped from her.

Kate Beckinsale is one of our funniest actors on screen and off screen. Her Instagram videos with her cats and her dog — she'll just be holding a gorgeous sweet cat and saying the funniest things. I will watch eight more Underworlds if she chooses to make them. There's room for those movies. I love that kind of movie and I love a period comedy and I love a hard-hitting think piece. There's room for everything. Kate is so multi-talented.

Shared Themes

Children of Men and Underworld: Blood Wars both deal with the survival of a species, with individuals who have something the rest of society lacks.

In Children of Men, Kee is carrying the first baby in almost two decades. In a world where it was believed women were no longer fertile, no new babies have been born. Kee is pregnant. Not just pregnant — she gives birth. Successfully gives birth to a healthy baby girl. This baby is truly it. This baby is humanity's future. Whether we think it's because it means other people can possibly get pregnant too, that this won't last forever, or because this baby can perhaps be studied — this is the first proof that survival of the human race is even a possibility. Everyone wants a piece of Kee and her baby because of what this survival represents.

In Underworld: Blood Wars, amidst constant power struggles between vampires and Lycans and within their own ranks, Kate Beckinsale's blood and even more so her daughter's blood both represent an advantage that each side covets. Eve has hidden herself away to prevent others from using her, and those in her orbit understand the importance of her powers not falling into the wrong hands.

The blood that Eve has, that Kate shares, their bloodline — it allows vampires to step into the sun. It allows a certain level of freedom, domination, existence, survival. If these creatures didn't have to cower in the dark, they wouldn't be so much of a target. They could blend in. They wouldn't be caged by the whims of the sun. Whoever has this blood can rule, can pass it down, can create a new species — a stronger, more powerful, more balanced one. That is a legacy these creatures crave.

Children of Men and Underworld: Blood Wars are dealing with bleak spots, but both carry through a sense of hope even amidst despair. Clive and Kate have had everything taken from them, but they give themselves to a cause. And kindness comes from surprising places, further imbuing the films with a sense that goodness can be found and not everything is lost.

In Children of Men, not only is the world awful — with most countries gone besides England — but Clive's world is bleak. He and his wife separated after their child died in a flu epidemic. He used to be politically active with Julianne Moore, but he's been floating through life since his son died. His only friend is a weird old dude. But when he becomes embroiled in Julianne's plan to get Kee to safety, to the human project, it gives him a purpose. It gives him something to believe in, and in opening himself up to Kee, he is met with support in turn.

The older woman in the Bexhill refugee camp — he had been so annoyed by her. She just had this barking dog and kept getting in their space. But when they're forced to share with her that Kee has given birth, this woman comes to their aid. She dedicates herself to protecting them. We see what Michael Caine gives up for this baby — he poisons his wife and his dog and gets himself shot to buy them time. He sees their survival as more important. He doesn't feel he dies in vain. He knows what he's doing.

Kee being pregnant, giving birth, means something. It means life. It means hope. It means future. It means that there's still a chance that whatever wiped out fertility is not 100%, is not permanent. Kee's baby surviving is of utmost importance because that hope, if they even think it's a possibility, will take away the suicidal despair so many people have been feeling.

In Underworld: Blood Wars, Kate is listless, distressed over the daughter she lost that she never knew. The daughter who told her not to be a mother. After Charles Dance dies helping Theo and Kate escape, she says: it seems it's the curse of every parent to disappoint their child. Theo says: at least you fought for your child. Kate replies: yes, and lost.

She feels so helpless. But she's set on not betraying her daughter, on not chasing her — even though she wants to. She sees that Theo and Charles had a complicated history but came together to help her, to do what is right. Charles sacrifices himself saving her. He knows he messed up. And Kate knows that somewhere out there, her daughter is alive. That's the best she can hope for in a world of bloodshed.

She finds help from the vampires in the ice and responds to their support in kind, adding one of their leaders to the vampire high council when given the chance. These vampires share with Theo James that his lineage is much more noble than he believed. With a good man finally having rights to the throne, there is hope for the future — that it won't always be chaos and infighting. At the end of the film, we see a vision of Eve. Perhaps the greatest proof that this world is back on track to something decent — that fighting will be put behind them and Eve will be safe to walk around as part of the clan and not just a political tool fought over by the weak.

Clive and Kate are people who aren't into statements, into politics. They just want to live. They live as outcasts, disconnected from society, but they are sucked back into battle — into other people's battles — because of what they bring to the table.

Clive has been incredibly shut off since his child died. He doesn't care about baby Diego. When everyone mourns baby Diego, he's like, he was a wanker. He doesn't have ties. He doesn't take part in the politics he used to involve himself with when he was with Julianne Moore. But Julianne pulls him back in. He takes on her transit paper quest because she offers money — that's why — but also out of some small loyalty to her. It's not his fight. It only becomes personal when he realizes Kee is pregnant and determines he's going to protect her at any cost.

He reminisces about his days as a rebel, claiming he only joined in because he wanted to sleep with Julianne. But it's clear based on how quickly he comes to Kee's aid that he is a good man who will work to protect what he believes in. He just needed that fire stoked again within himself.

In Underworld, Kate says: I'm finished with this war. And she's told: well, it's not finished with you. Kate doesn't have anything to fight for with her daughter away. Nothing besides her own life. But she's lived so long. She's tired. She doesn't care who's in power. She only cares about the basics, about survival. The war is brought to her doorstep as people fight for her blood and her potential knowledge of where her daughter may be located.

Once she's involved, she will not let Charles Dance's death be in vain. She wants to end the terror while she can. She works to reinstate Theo James as the rightful leader. She is someone who is loyal — and though she was betrayed by her ruler of many years, she still believes there is justice.

Clive and Kate achieve redemption in a way, channeling their struggles into creating a better world for others. Nothing can bring back Clive's son Dylan, and nothing can give Kate back the time she lost with her daughter. But they still do what's right.

What Underworld: Blood Wars Did Better

Children of Men is not a refugee's story. It's not Julianne Moore's story. It's not Kee's story. It is somehow inexplicably Clive Owen's story. While in Underworld: Blood Wars, yes, it's Eve's blood that is the Holy Grail for these people after power, but we're exploring Kate's story — as a mother who has given up her child, as a person who is being hunted for who she is, for reasons beyond her control.

Now — this killed me about Children of Men. In the movie, the infertility crisis is the result of all women being infertile. In the original novel by P.D. James, it's the result of all men producing no sperm. Why'd it have to become the lady body's problem in the movie? I love in The Handmaid's Tale that it's so clear that all the dudes' sperm is jacked up, so the Handmaids have to go get impregnated by other people in secret to maintain this facade. Whatever, not important, great show.

As much as I love Kee in Children of Men, this story is Clive coming to terms with what he lost and trying to build a better future. It's not the story of the actual revolutionary Julianne Moore — she is killed so fast. We don't know Kee's past, who the father of her baby is, or what circumstances may have led to her pregnancy. We join the story when the white savior joins the story and we leave it when he does. And that is for sure an oversimplification. I like this movie and what it brings up and discusses. But if we're looking at things that are either impressive or tired — this is tired.

We've got this movie with this rich tapestry of people — the Fishes' guy who is willing to kill his own for political means, so many people with compelling narratives — and Clive Owen's is the most boring and that's who we're following.

I love the way Underworld: Blood Wars shares the story of a strong woman, a mother who struggles with her role in her daughter's life, who is seen as a threat as much as she's seen as a pawn to be used. People respect her and discard her in equal measure. She is unsure of her place in a world where she is accepted by no one. She was a death-dealing vampire but killed her leader, so vampires hate her. Humans hate her. Lycans hate her because of who she is. And yet, instead of going into the woods forever, she continues to take part in this world because she knows at the end of the day, she needs to fight for what's right.

The movie ends with Kate on the council, indicating a more positive future for the vampires. Kate's life is one of sacrifice. We join her at a point where she has truly hit her lowest, feels disconnected. We watch as she raises herself up, is brought back from the brink of death after her fight with Marius, and rejoins the war that has stripped her of everything. Kate lives between worlds, and it's her strength.

Despite not much dialogue from Kate, Selene is a compelling character — one whose story is layered and troubled and fascinating. There are great characters in Underworld, but I'm not watching it going, I wish we were learning about anyone else. The way I felt a little bit in Children of Men, where it's like — how did Kee and Pam Ferris meet? What's their deal?

Children of Men's infertile future is not a clichéd plot. It's fascinating. But all focus being on the protection of a baby, on the importance of a baby being born, of birth itself — it's a little well-worn. Underworld: Blood Wars explores the pain of choosing to let a child go for their own good, of the intensity of being away from them through your own choice, of never having a bond with that child.

In Underworld: Blood Wars, it's about a relationship that never happened, about the bonds that didn't have a chance to form. There's a longing Kate has, but there's also a certain level of detachment, an awareness of what she must give up to stay sane and to keep Eve safe.

It's a brave choice and interesting to look at — people who must give up their children for reasons beyond their control. Kate had to make this choice. It was the only option. It doesn't keep her from feeling alone and feeling that loss, but she's a pragmatist about it. She stays connected to her daughter the ways she can — carrying a lock of her hair, a little bit of mind reading, seeing out of her eyes. Vampire stuff. She never doubts the choice she made.

I love that they didn't fully reunite in this film. The kid didn't run up at the council meeting and go mommy. Instead, we're given a glimpse as a shrouded figure approaches Kate at the end. Because their reunion is less important than what both gave up for the sake of the other and for the sake of the world. It's a really interesting relationship to explore.

Children of Men is a great exploration of the impact children have, the way thoughts of lineage and passing something down determine whether people even behave as though they're in a society. But the actual story of motherhood is a little well-worn. We have this mother who will do anything for her child and keeps the child with her. Kee doesn't want the kid taken for purposes political or scientific, understandably. This birth, this biological process is so highly venerated because it has been impossible for years. Yes, it's completely new terrain in a lot of ways, but it's the same relationship we so often explore — a mother looking into her baby's eyes for the first time, that connection, that bond.

In Underworld: Blood Wars, Eve grew up without a mother. Kate gave birth in a cryogenic freeze. She wasn't even aware she had a daughter. She finds out from Eve herself. This film is about a relationship that never happened. About the bonds that didn't have a chance to form. And knowing Kate had to make this choice, that it was the only option — it doesn't keep her from feeling alone. But she's a pragmatist. She never doubts it.

Give Underworld: Blood Wars a shot. I guess watch all the other ones first — out of the other four, one is a prequel so you can maybe skip that one. But I'd say just watch all of them. Just go for it. You can watch Blood Wars right now on Tubi for free. I of course own it in 4K, because who do you think I am?

Hit me up at @tastelesspod on social media. We can talk about Kate Beckinsale's giant coat in Blood Wars and how much I love it, or we can talk about why some people don't look very good with fangs.

Brooke Smith | Strong Female Leads

Brooke Smith Strong Female Leads

Brooke Smith (Big Sky, The Silence of the Lambs, Grey's Anatomy) becomes my favorite character in every project she joins, and this episode felt like a breezy chat with a close friend. Brooke answered my questions about the satisfaction of bringing a character like Merilee to life on Big Sky, her relationship with Darla the dog aka Precious, and I called dibs on hiring her as a therapist should she ever change career paths.

Follow Brooke on Instagram and Twitter | Catch up on Big Sky on Hulu or ABC | Watch a trailer for Them coming to Amazon April 9th

Tunnel Vision: Goodfellas vs I, Tonya

Goodfellas vs I Tonya

Two movies about the pursuit of a specific lifestyle and feeling powerless — it's Goodfellas vs I, Tonya.

Read The Episode

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two Oscar winners about the pursuit of a specific lifestyle and feeling powerless. It's Goodfellas versus I, Tonya. And yes, I was furious to discover the I, Tonya poster literally has the pull quote "the Goodfellas of figure skating." Someone thought of this comparison before me and put it on the poster.

Goodfellas

The story of Henry Hill and his life in the mafia, covering his relationship with his wife Karen and his mob partners Jimmy Conway and Tommy DeVito.

This movie came out in 1990, has a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes, and is number 17 on the IMDB Top 250. Joe Pesci won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for playing Tommy DeVito. It was also nominated for Best Picture, Best Supporting Actress for Lorraine Bracco, Best Director for Martin Scorsese, Best Adapted Screenplay, and Best Film Editing.

I like this movie, mostly because I love Lorraine Bracco. We're going to talk about her. But let's talk Ray Liotta first, who plays Henry Hill. Henry Hill is a real man on whom this book was based. Ray Liotta was so attractive. I knew him better from Chantix commercials and I hope he managed to stop smoking. In Goodfellas, he always looks like he has eyeliner on in a very attractive way. I also realized while watching that I know him maybe best from voicing Tommy Vercetti in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, a game I used to play for hours on the original Xbox.

Ray Liotta is our protagonist, our guy, the one doing the narration. He's a little more even-keeled than the other guys because he's the most normal, the most human, the easiest to empathize with. A lot of the movie is just him listing foods. He loves talking about foods. Made me very hungry. There's a whole scene where they're in prison and he's talking about the foods that are being made. There's another scene where he's voicing over all the things he has to get done — the cops are following him, there's a wire, he has to drop stuff off, call this person, get someone's lucky hat — I gotta chop the veal, I gotta chop the tomatoes, I gotta get a nice sear on the things. He was cooking some full meat as an appetizer. It was a big to-do. This movie will make you very hungry. I actually, after watching it, ordered pizza from a fancy place and it sucked. It sucked so hard and I'm mad about it.

Robert De Niro — also a hunk in this movie, but I would say he's a hunk now, and that I was attracted to him in the film called Dirty Grandpa. This role unfortunately is kind of just a worse version of his role in The Godfather Part II. He's just supporting as Jimmy Conway. And apparently on set he was very obsessed with realism and authenticity — he wanted to use real money for a scene where Jimmy hands out money because he didn't like the way fake money felt in his hands. IMDB claims the prop master gave De Niro $5,000 of his own money. At the end of each take, no one was allowed to leave the set until all the money was returned and counted.

It got me thinking — if Robert De Niro said, I need $5,000, you'll get it back, would I get it for him? I think I would. If I had $5,000, if that was all my savings, I'd be like, okay, here, I just went to the bank. Is this good enough for you, Mr. De Niro? Also, he was always asking questions like, how would the real Jimmy do something? How would he apply his ketchup? And Henry Hill is just like, oh my God, because the real Henry Hill talked about this movie — he claims Robert De Niro was calling him multiple times a day. Robert De Niro sounds a little clingy.

Joe Pesci is Tommy DeVito. He is always screaming and shooting people. Henry Hill had a rude little factoid about him — Henry Hill said Joe Pesci's portrayal of Tommy DeSimone was 90 to 99% accurate with one notable exception: the real Tommy DeSimone was massively built. Very rude. Joe Pesci is a little wise guy. He's like, hey, you think I'm funny? Funny like a clown? I'm gonna shoot you. Pop pop. I don't like that unhinged chaotic energy.

What I do like is a little character named Karen, played by the original Karen, played by Lorraine Bracco — who I know you know as Angela Rizzoli, the Rizzoli matriarch in Rizzoli & Isles. Love her from that. That's why I watched Goodfellas: to watch Angela Rizzoli.

What I love about her character is Karen is very down for whatever's going on. She says — because we get to hear from her in the narration — look, other women would not have been into this. He asked me to hide the gun and it turned me on. All right, Karen, cool. She wears a lot of great sweaters.

The lens through which I look at these films is a lot of the time: why isn't there more women? It's a big problem I have with a lot of these gangster movies. What's most frustrating is they always have one really good woman. Lorraine Bracco in Goodfellas is such an interesting character. When we see her with the other mob wives, she doesn't quite gel there. She doesn't quite fit in, because I think in another life she could have been the Henry Hill. She could have been the mobster, because she likes a little bit of danger and there's this undercurrent with her where nothing is what you think it's going to be. I would say the same about Casino — Sharon Stone is so incredible in that film and it's like, why are we even looking at anyone else?

Lorraine Bracco, in talking about this movie, said she found the shoot emotionally difficult because it was such a male-dominated cast. She realized if she didn't make her work important, it would probably end up on the cutting room floor. What's fascinating about that is yes, they could have carved her out of this movie. Absolutely. And I think it wouldn't have been the hit that it was. She adds something perhaps intangible, something important, something human — seeing Ray Liotta through her eyes, seeing the way she views this world. He is stars in his eyes, wants to be a mobster, loves these guys. Lorraine Bracco is kind of like, I mean, it's fine. I don't know why we have to spend every weekend hanging out with them.

It's crazy to think this movie is number 17 on top movies of all time, nominated for multiple Oscars, and she could have just been cut out. You wonder how many of these movies had storylines like hers just removed.

There's a lot of yelling at Karen. She flushes his drugs and he's just yelling and she's like, the cops were here. Of course I flushed the drugs. She could have done better. Honestly, you know what would have been great? If she had started hooking up with Jimmy Conway, with Robert De Niro. Yes. That would have been a movie. Let's redo it. Cast Lorraine Bracco and Ray Liotta and Robert De Niro all at their current ages. Have De Niro and Lorraine Bracco make out. Cinema.

Paul Sorvino plays Paulie. He's kind of the quiet one, the big mob guy you never quite know what he's thinking. In IMDB trivia it says when Paulie confronts Henry after Henry's release from prison, Paul Sorvino improvised the slap to Ray Liotta's face, hence Liotta's reaction. Imagine a job where you can just slap someone and be like, it's fine, I was in character.

A couple really great supporting women in this movie — Illeana Douglas of To Die For, love her. Debi Mazar of the show Younger. Two important Italian women and I was so excited when both popped up. And Martin Scorsese's mother Catherine plays Tommy's mother in the infamous dinner scene. Scorsese's father Charles played Vinny the prisoner who put too many onions in the tomato sauce. I love nepotism when it helps old people. That's the kind of nepotism I can get behind. Cast your moms in stuff. Good. But only if they're over 70; otherwise I don't care.

Joe Pesci won the Oscar. Sixth shortest acceptance speech in Academy history: It's my privilege, thank you. He later admitted he didn't say very much because he genuinely felt he didn't have a chance of winning. The record is two words — Patty Duke in 1963 said thank you. Somebody needs to get up there and just go thanks and walk away. Imagine the power that would have. I will now be getting into acting so that I can win an Oscar and give the shortest acceptance speech. I'll keep you all abreast of how that goes.

I, Tonya

Competitive ice skater Tonya Harding rises amongst the ranks at the U.S. Figure Skating Championships, but her future in the activity is thrown into doubt when her ex-husband intervenes.

This movie came out in 2017, has a 90% on Rotten Tomatoes. It won a Supporting Actress Oscar for Allison Janney as Tonya Harding's mother. It was also nominated for Best Actress for Margot Robbie and Best Film Editing.

Clearly I've been on a Margot Robbie kick lately with Bombshell and Birds of Prey already covered this year. I don't think I quite realized what an incredible filmography she has. I saw I, Tonya at a screening, was so blown away — just frantically telling everyone they needed to see it ASAP. I was gratified to see it get awards recognition. I felt like finally the Oscars knew what was up.

The prep Margot Robbie put into this movie really paid off. She learned to ice skate, she met with Tonya Harding, and I felt like she didn't pull her punches in presenting an authentic portrayal, but she also did engender sympathy for a woman who faced hardship on an international level.

Let's face it, there's a harsh reality to what happened to Tonya Harding. I want to be cautious because I don't want to make light of what Nancy Kerrigan went through. She was assaulted. And as we watch this movie and feel such sadness at the thought of Tonya not being able to skate again professionally, it's important to note that was the reality Nancy Kerrigan faced. Nancy wound up recovering, was able to compete at the Olympics. But when all you do is skate and someone bashes your knee in, things aren't looking good. But this is Tonya's story, so let's talk about her angle.

There's a through line where she addresses the way the media portrayed her, how we reacted to Tonya Harding, the jokes, the punchline she was made. She says at one point, turning to camera: you're all my attackers too. You think about how we all knew who she was, we all knew the joke. There are a few national jokes — it's like that woman who cut her husband's penis off. There's a few where we just all know it.

The story as told in the film: her ex-husband Jeff Gillooly — they have a complicated, volatile relationship. Not even complicated: in the movie he beats her, he abuses her, he treats her like garbage and she thinks that's what love is. He gets involved with his weird friend Shawn Eckhardt, who wants to basically shake up Nancy Kerrigan because Nancy is Tonya's biggest threat. Tonya thinks they're going to send a letter, a scary threatening letter. She also gets Nancy's training schedule and tells Jeff — like, yeah, this is when she's here and this is when she's there. She's not on the up and up, but I doubt she was involved in knowing a physical attack would be carried out.

She says to camera: Nancy gets hit one time, everybody goes nuts. For me, it was an everyday occurrence. When we see her confiding in her mother that her husband hits her and her mom's like, well, you know, he needs to shut you up — it's disgusting the way she was treated. She was raised in such a hateful environment. The way the movie explores her is really nuanced and interesting. And it's also funny — very darkly comedic. At one point Jeff is telling his side of the story, saying she pulled a gun on him, and it shows Tonya chasing him around the house with a shotgun. And she turns to camera, pumps the shotgun, and says, this is BS. I never did this. And goes back to chasing him.

The only really bad thing about this movie is the CGI. And I say that only because it's so shocking amidst this incredible film. Do you remember those Elf Yourself dance videos? That's what it looks like. Margot trained extensively, but as producer Tom Ackerley stated, there have been only six women since Tonya Harding who have done a triple axel. Even if there was one doing it today, she'd be training for the Olympics and couldn't risk doing it for the film. So the jump was accomplished with visual effects and a lot of these skating scenes are Margot Robbie's head glued onto someone else's body. I would have rather had a stunt double whose hair was in their face, like old-school Buffy or Charmed.

Margot Robbie — incredible. Allison Janney as Tonya's mother is intense and awful and hateful, but is also the reason Tonya was able to train. Allison Janney herself had actually trained to become a figure skater as a child, but she walked into a sliding glass door at 17 and gravely injured her right leg. She shot for about eight days on this movie and won the Oscar. She has a little bird on her shoulder. At the Q&A, the writer talked about how they had to audition different birds to figure out which one to hire — they just wanted one that wasn't always yelling. They chose the most chill bird.

Sebastian Stan plays Jeff Gillooly. He is so charming at first, has his moments, but you see the anger in him — the way he hits Tonya when he doesn't get what he wants. Their relationship is so unhealthy, but they need each other because he takes care of all the business things so Tonya can focus on skating. Her mother raised her with no life skills, so Jeff basically takes on the role of her mother. Sebastian is currently best known as Bucky in the Avengers series, but I loved him on Once Upon a Time as the Mad Hatter, as Carter in Gossip Girl, as Nicole Kidman's criminal boyfriend in Destroyer. He has range. That is a talented actor who I think we will be seeing Oscar nominations for at some point.

Paul Walter Hauser plays Shawn, the dumb friend who is the one who basically makes all this happen. Jeff is the one who pays for it and thinks he's the boss, but it's Shawn just wanting to do stuff that makes it an issue. I hate this character so much. In the interview scenes, he's just talking with his eyes almost all the way closed, leaned back, like, I know counterterrorism. I'm an expert. And they're like, what? No you aren't. We looked. And he's like, yeah, yeah. The doubling down, the lying. I hate him so much. But Paul Walter Hauser himself, the actor — I've heard such lovely things about him.

Julianne Nicholson plays Diane, Tonya's trainer. She is there for Tonya in a way not many people are. She's frank with her and with her mother that the judges expect a certain level of presentation. She gets one of the best moments in the film — when she begins working with Tonya again and they're training for the Olympics. Some of the training is a little unorthodox. Tonya is running through the woods carrying a massive bag of dog food over her shoulders, and we hear in the narration: this is how Rocky trained when he had to fight the Russian, and it worked. Then the camera pans out past Diane, who turns directly to the lens and says, matter-of-factly: she actually did this.

Touches like this bring an extra interesting layer of humanity to the film — reminding us this is a real person who is alive today, who was such a part of our cultural conversation. And Bobby Cannavale appears as a tabloid producer, commenting on needing to fill the 24-hour news cycle. The timing of Tonya's story was such a big deal partially because the media made it a big deal because they needed to fill time.

Shared Themes

Our protagonists lose control over their lives and their selves. Their humanity takes a backseat to the pursuit of a certain lifestyle. Both Ray Liotta and Tonya are so laser-focused on one arena to the detriment of the rest of their lives.

Ray wants to be a wise guy. He sees value in getting respect and thinks joining the mobsters is how you get it. But to maintain his lifestyle, to keep his bosses happy while also getting respect from those he's shaking down, he gets embroiled in more and more criminal activities and runs himself ragged. He meets a nice woman, Lorraine Bracco, who he barely spends time with because he's always off running cons. He can never fully trust those around him — a wrong move can lead to being offed. He gets into the drugs he's selling and is always worried about the next big thing, where money is coming from, whether he's being followed, whether he'll get caught. For all his bravado, he lives life in fear 100% of the time. He is never secure. He never feels secure.

Tonya Harding wants to skate. That's all she wants to do. She's been pushed into it from a young age. She doesn't have other life skills. She says at one point when a judge tells her she can never skate professionally again after the Nancy Kerrigan incident: the people who actually ordered and paid for the attack got jail time. They got 18 months — I'll do that, your honor. I don't have an education. All I know is skating. I'm no one if I can't — I'm not this monster. I'm trying to do the best with what I know how to. It's like you're giving me a life sentence. You can't do that.

Not being able to skate is worse than prison. It is a life sentence. She has been skating since she was four years old. It's where she gets her confidence, her sense of self. In a world that has beaten her down in every other arena, no one can take from her the skill she has on the ice. No one can take from her that she can land a triple axel.

Ray and Tonya become involved with shady figures — the people who hang around their lines of business. The other mobsters, and then Jeff Gillooly, who was truly just lurking at the skate rink. Because they're only ever in this one space, they never have people in their lives they can really trust. Ray's best friend in Goodfellas is probably Robert De Niro, but by the end of the film De Niro is going to kill him. He can't trust anyone, not really. He's so by himself. Even in a house full of people, even in an organization he has helped build up.

Tonya has a mother who abused her and a father who abandoned her. She looks for love in the wrong places. Her mother hit her, so when Jeff Gillooly hits her, she takes it, accepting it as a piece of a normal loving relationship. She keeps trying to escape, but she goes back because Jeff knows her business and he knows her. When she's training long hours, where else is she going to meet someone? This is the world she is in.

Ray and Tonya get caught up in things that get fully out of control, their lives spiraling, with other people's actions creating more and more panic.

There's something so tragic about the circumstances of Ray and Tonya's birth not allowing them to ever fully be accepted into the professions they've dedicated their lives to.

Ray can never be a made man because he's part Irish, not full-blooded Italian. It's a point of contention for him and Robert De Niro, who's also half Irish, because being a made man is an incredible honor — it grants you a certain level of protection as well as greater respect. It's the acknowledgment: you're one of us, officially. But he can't change the fact that he's part Irish. Being truly part of this community is outside his reach, forever.

For Tonya, her supposed redneck upbringing has her in the judges' crosshairs from day one. She can't afford fur coats to wear on the ice. She doesn't have fancy schooling or parents of means. The upper crust of the figure skating world will never truly accept her. It doesn't matter what she does, what moves she can land — she's not considered one of them. They're like, yeah, Tonya Harding's out there, got a triple axel, which barely any other humans can do. Well, but look at her skirt. It's so absurd and she just can't change that perception. It's the perception the media cashed in on, exaggerated, dragged out, and turned into a punchline.

Power is something always just out of reach for Ray and Tonya. Something they crave if for no other reason than to finally be in charge of themselves, to not have to bow to the whims of others. They attempt to garner this power in small ways throughout their films, but Ray and Tonya are doomed from the start. The hand life has dealt them never allowed them to truly empower themselves. Their fate is left to others. At their lowest, they are powerless. Not in charge of what is happening or what will happen.

Ray spends a large chunk of Goodfellas serving others, doing as people say, trying to be a team player. As a kid, when he first dabs with the mob, he gets a warm reaction from Robert De Niro because when he's caught in a crime, he doesn't rat out his friends. That loyalty sticks with him. But when he's sent to jail, he develops his own drug connections and grows increasingly frustrated by Lorraine Bracco wanting to loop in Paulie. Paulie tells Ray straight up not to do the drug nonsense. But Ray finally has his own business going and doesn't want to turn down easy money. The problem is he's already too entrenched. They hang out at each other's houses. Their wives are friends, mistresses are friends. There's no escape. His illusion of power comes crashing down when the drug business makes him a paranoid wreck and the guys he's been with for decades stop trusting him.

Tonya is constantly slighted by the figure skating judges because they don't like her presentation. Doesn't matter if she's athletically the most gifted — she loses points for looks, for homemade outfits, for skating to heavy metal songs. It wears her down until finally she confronts the judges. She asks them: how am I supposed to get a fair shot if you're not actually judging me based on my skill?

It's an important moment for Tonya. The people around her don't appreciate her brashness, her questioning of this governing body. But it's one of the bravest things she does, because she says out loud: I am worth something. I know I have these skills. And this treatment is insane. And with the way Tonya has been treated her whole life, it's powerful to see her acknowledge her skills.

She eventually does have to bow to at least some whims of the figure skating ruling bodies. But it was a critical part of her own development and independence, leading to her finally extricating herself from Jeff Gillooly. The problem is it still isn't enough. You can't change how people see you to a certain extent. She stood up for herself, but she still is a joke to them. She still is glossed over by them. She doesn't get any satisfaction from yelling at them.

I do love that Tonya Harding, the real Tonya Harding, has said — when she first saw the film she particularly liked a certain line. She told Margot Robbie she wished she had actually said that. You don't get that in real life. So while it's wish fulfillment to watch her do it, you know it's not going to change anything. She's still powerless to these people and their whims.

What I, Tonya Did Better

Loyalty is something we all interpret a little differently, despite it being a concept you'd think would be pretty objective. For all Ray Liotta's talk of loyalty in Goodfellas, of having a crew — at the end of the day, they will whack you. At the end of the day, it's you or them. Whereas in I, Tonya, the dedication of Diane, Tonya's coach, is a through line that really touched me, as well as Tonya's loyalty to herself.

Loyalty is constantly rewarded for Ray in Goodfellas — he's praised when he doesn't rat people out, given more trust. And yet the same loyalty doesn't seem afforded to him. It seems crazy to take part in this system, talk up the loyalty, be excited about being a mobster, all with the knowledge you can never actually be a made man. It doesn't surprise Ray when at the end Robert De Niro definitely wants to kill him, even before he rats everyone out to the government. Ray cheats on his wife, not affording her the same loyalty he himself wants. It's all so false and hollow.

When we think of Goodfellas, we think loyalty. We think of these guys laughing in a darkened restaurant, having each other's backs, ready to bury a body for one another. But they also would totally bury each other. And that is rude. And that is not good friendship.

In I, Tonya, we see the ways people have let Tonya down. Everyone is looking out for themselves. The only constant in Tonya's life is skating, her love for it, even when it leads to her more difficult moments. Coach Diane coming back to find her at her waitressing job, bringing her out of retirement and giving her purpose again — it's so kind, so beautiful, so important. Diane wasn't taking on new clients when Allison Janney first busted into her ice rink, but she saw the passion a young Tonya had and has worked to help her channel that into skill for decades. Even knowing the reception Tonya gets, knowing how difficult it will be — Diane is there for her and wants her to do her best. That is loyalty.

And there's the loyalty Tonya has to herself when she involves herself in skating. She always gives it her full commitment. She gives her body her full commitment. She practices, she prepares. She never ever phones it in because this is what she's passionate about. And her passion is something Ray never has in Goodfellas.

Ray loves the life he's joined, the idea of it, but he never puts himself first. It's always trying to be bigger and better, but in the way that these other men want him to be. He never has a dream for himself. Tonya truly just wants to excel at this thing she loves. She wants to physically best those around her and find new heights of what she can achieve. That's compelling to watch.

Ray is not a full-fledged person in Goodfellas. He loses all aspects of himself conforming to the Goodfellas model. He's always trying to confirm that he's one of them. Whereas Tonya, despite the blows she takes, is herself to a fault. It's what makes her such a tragic figure and also why I don't have much connection to Ray Liotta. In Goodfellas, Ray is always trying to please other people. We see him as a kid wanting to be a gangster. We see him taking orders, constantly panicking, worried over how others will see him. He revels in their successes, but it's always a group affair, everyone together, no individuality.

One of the IMDB trivia facts says the film, told from Henry Hill's perspective, portrays him as a major player in the world of organized crime. Real-life gangsters of that era have said Hill was a minor figure and more of a hanger-on. So they already are taking liberties with Henry Hill — the story's about him, so of course he's going to do the most cool stuff. But he's still, even with the liberties, not cool. He has no sense of self. So why am I watching him? Show me anyone else in this movie, follow their story, because this guy has nothing.

In I, Tonya, Tonya Harding is so true to herself even as the world around her works to break her down. She is very clear about what she will or won't do in the sport. She wants to be authentic — not for some reason of looks, but because this is what she loves and what she knows, and she knows she's good. So to watch her find out what Jeff Gillooly has done, when she realizes what has happened to Nancy Kerrigan and her part in it — it's affecting. It's sad, because she could have won the right way. She had beat Nancy. She had come in first and Nancy second. She could have beat her. Jeff and Shawn took that chance from her.

When she breaks down in the courtroom over having skating taken from her, it's devastating. When we see Ray in the courtroom in Goodfellas, it's to rat out all his former friends and get himself a lighter sentence. Even his mantra of loyalty isn't carried out in that element of the film either.

There's something about Tonya. This movie definitely romanticizes the story a little bit — it shows us a woman you want to root for, and that's what this movie has been crafted to do. But think about the real-life woman who, when she performed the triple axel at the 1991 Nationals, choreographed her routine to Danny Elfman's theme for the 1989 Batman. She knew what she liked and she did it. And I love that.

I also think I, Tonya took the element of narration and upped the ante by having Tonya speak directly to the viewer while looking at us. Listening to Ray explain the world of Goodfellas is the backbone of the film. But when Tonya turned to the camera, gun in hand, pumping the shotgun and saying I never did this before chasing Jeff Gillooly — and when she said, turning about the news surrounding the attack on Nancy Kerrigan: it was like being abused all over again, only this time it was by you. All of you. You're all my attackers too — she turns and looks directly down the barrel of the camera. It struck me. It elevated the film. It helped me think more critically about the way we gather information, what the media feeds us, what we learn.

I hope you will give I, Tonya a chance. They don't need my help that much, but I do really adore it. It is currently streaming on Hulu.

Hit me up at @tastelesspod on social media. We can talk Margot Robbie, we can talk Ray Liotta's eyeliner, or we can talk about the fact that somebody needs to win an Oscar and just say "thanks" and walk away.

Out of Character: Face/Off vs Deadly Sibling Rivalry

Face/Off vs Deadly Sibling Rivalry

Two movies about taking on someone else's identity in pursuit of revenge — it's Face/Off vs Deadly Sibling Rivalry.

Read Charisma Carpenter's THR piece, How To Be an Ally of Victims of Abuse

Read The Episode

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two movies about taking on someone else's identity in pursuit of revenge. It's Face/Off versus Deadly Sibling Rivalry.

Face/Off

To foil a terrorist plot, an FBI agent assumes the identity of the criminal who murdered his son via facial transplant surgery, but the crook wakes up prematurely and vows revenge.

This movie came out in 1997, has a shocking 92% on Rotten Tomatoes with just under 100 reviews, and is just one of those action movies that people are talking about all the time. I watched it for the first time. Was shocked by everything that happened. It was nominated for an Oscar for Best Sound Effects Editing — it lost to Titanic.

The most insane part of this movie, though — where somebody's face gets swapped with somebody else's face — the most insane part is it opens on a carousel. John Travolta with his son, who he loves dearly. The son's probably about five years old. And Nicolas Cage is watching them because he's going to shoot John Travolta. And I guess to show his affection for his son, John Travolta takes his big old beefy hand and just runs it down the front of his son's face. You know, like in a movie when someone's dead and the other person runs their hand over their face to close their eyelids? That's what this looked like. It's so weird.

And then when he's trying to convince his wife that he's him later — when he's in Nick Cage's body — he touches her face, rubs his hand down her face, and she's like, it is my weird husband who rudely rubs his hand down my face. This must be him in someone else's body.

It's not a body swap, by the way. They're very specific about that. They're like, it's your body. We've shaved you and done plastic surgery and taken in your love handles. Somebody rudely says that to John Travolta — we've cut out your love handles so your body looks like Nick Cage's body. We have cut your hair and the only thing different is your face.

John Travolta is Sean Archer, an FBI agent who's been hunting this terrorist maniac Nick Cage. His son was killed by Nick Cage — by mistake. Nick Cage was trying to shoot John Travolta and the bullet went through his body into the body of his son. Not the best planning. This movie reminded me of how attracted I was to John Travolta in Look Who's Talking. Knock your — you thought I was going to say Grease? No. Look Who's Talking.

And then his enemy is Nick Cage playing Castor Troy, who is really, I feel like, not that good at crimes. He's really off the handle. When he's setting up the bomb at the beginning, every time he hits a button on this little portable computer, a little graphic of a flame pops up on the button after he hits it. Then we see him dance around in a priest's robes. I don't know why. He just dances around and grabs women's butts. He is truly a predator and disgusting.

Then he gets on a private jet with his brother, played by Alessandro Nivola — who you may know as the man in Disobedience, basically Italy's answer to Sam Rockwell. Nick Cage is hitting on this flight attendant and grabs her and makes her sit in his lap and goes, I can eat a peach for hours. But in kind of a weird valley accent, like, I can eat a peach for hours, man. And then he says that about 200 more times during the movie. That's the phrase John Travolta uses to get into his voice and his identity, because they give him this little voice box. He's just like, I can eat a peach for hours. I can eat a peach for hours. Peach, peach, I can eat a peach for hours. It's so upsetting and insane.

Poor Joan Allen in this movie has to kiss both John Travolta and Nick Cage. We also have CCH Pounder, who I love, John Carroll Lynch, who I love, Margaret Cho, who I love, and Gina Gershon, who we're going to get into in a second.

So they've swapped. They're like, John Travolta, Nick Cage is dead but we've got his brother and we need to find out where this bomb is. He won't talk to anyone besides his brother. So why don't you put on his brother's face and go talk to him? And John Travolta is like, great, sure. They give him Nick Cage's face. He goes to talk to Alessandro Nivola. Then while he's in there, Nick Cage wakes up from being dead, sees John Travolta's face floating in a jar, makes the surgeon give him John Travolta's face, kills everyone who knew that John Travolta was undercover — including CCH Pounder, which made me very sad — and goes on a rampage as John Travolta.

So we have Nick Cage with John Travolta's face, which is just the actor John Travolta pretending to be Castor Troy. And then we have John Travolta with Nick Cage's face, who is supposed to be undercover as Castor Troy. And immediately to one of the prisoners he's like, I busted you. You're in jail because of me. Oh wait, I mean — no. Sean Archer busted you. I'm Castor Troy. How are you an agent that you're this bad at going undercover?

Then he's looking around, like, the brother doesn't buy it's me. So I'm going to really pretend to be Castor Troy, and he does this insane person face that's like a meme online. And he just starts yelling, I'm Castor Troy! I'm Castor Troy! Great plan. If you want to pretend to be someone and you want other people to believe you, just scream that you are them as many times as you can.

Nick Cage, who is Sean Archer in Castor Troy's body, just keeps crying and touching his face. He finds out Tito is dead and he's like, Tito! He can't say the word "die." He keeps saying it and there's always — I watched with subtitles and that's the only reason I could tell he was saying a word and not just making a sound.

Later, Sean Archer in the Nick Cage body is trying to convince his wife, Joan Allen, that it's him. And he tells the most unhinged story: I took this girl on a date. I took her to surf and turf, but it turned out she was a vegetarian. And by the way, the story's about you. You broke your tooth on a rye seed, remember? You just ate a bunch of bread and you broke your tooth. What? This is what you picked to convince this woman that you're her husband?

As much as I hated all of Nick Cage's acting, I really enjoyed John Travolta getting to play Castor Troy, getting to be the bad guy. There's almost something a little feminine about it and something just very loosey-goosey that I enjoyed. He immediately was so creepy to Joan Allen. I feel like if my husband was suddenly a freak, I would at least be like, hey man, should you go to the doctor? Do you have a brain tumor?

Very funny trivia: one of his lines is I hate this ridiculous chin, which is Castor Troy in John Travolta's body talking about his chin. IMDB trivia says John Travolta asked the writers if they were making fun of him with the ridiculous chin line. They explained that Castor was such a narcissist that he would hate having anyone else's face. John Travolta is like, hey, is this joke about my chin? And they're like, no, no, no, it's the character. The character just hates everyone's chin. It's not you specifically.

Also in John Travolta trivia: before shooting emotional scenes, John Woo played soft, sad music to help the actors get into character. John Travolta said he didn't need it. He nailed the scene in one take, earning the nickname One Take John. Okay, that 100% did not happen and/or John Travolta submitted this piece of trivia himself.

They say "face off" about 18 times in this movie. Nick Cage is like, I want to take his face off. And his henchman is like, face off? Face off? You want to take his face off? I'm going to take his face off — for about 10 minutes. It's a real weird Who's on First thing. The studio wanted to take the slash out of the title. John Woo was like, no, I'm worried people will think it's a hockey movie if it doesn't have the slash.

Now, Gina Gershon. She is so cool in this movie. The best part is she's holding her son — probably five years old, turns out Castor is the father — and the FBI comes in to raid these bad guys. She kicks one of the bad guys in the crotch and turns to her kid and goes, I don't ever want to see you do that. IMDB trivia says Gina Gershon decided Sasha should kick a man in the groin. I thought that just encapsulated her whole personality. The whole killer mom. Yes!

She told John Woo she wanted to shave her head for the role and he said no. Then Nick Cassavetes, who played her brother, surprised John Woo by shaving his head for the role. John Woo said it was just the image he wanted. Double standard much?

A couple more bits of trivia because this movie is just a movie. The two main characters' blood types reflect their antagonistic nature. Sean Archer's blood type is O-negative, the universal donor, reflecting Archer's role as a police officer dedicated to serving the community. Castor Troy's is AB-positive, the universal recipient — someone who takes from society without giving anything back. I really hope there's never any IMDB trivia about my blood type and what it says about me.

And important trivia: a lot of people caught the flu while filming the prison scenes because of the dirty conditions there.

The grossest part of this movie is that at the end — spoiler alert — Gina Gershon dies, so John Travolta, now Sean Archer again, brings home Gina Gershon's son and is like, we're going to raise him now. He's the same age as our child that died. His daughter goes up to the little boy and just runs her hand right down his face. What is wrong with this family? Family's a bunch of sickos.

Deadly Sibling Rivalry

In trouble with the law, a woman assumes the identity of her twin sister, who is in a coma after a car accident. Her niece isn't so easily fooled, but proving it could have deadly consequences.

This movie came out in 2011. It does not have a score on Rotten Tomatoes, but it lacks me, and I'll change that.

I decided to crack into this comparison because of Charisma Carpenter's recent headlines. Now, Charisma is an incredible actress and human. I know and love her from Buffy, which led me to following her career in all arenas. She hosted a show called Surviving Evil, a documentary series about people fighting for their lives, and she shared her own story about being attacked. She's created her own virtual convention experience with MyCon.live. And recently she has been in the news because she has come out about her experiences with Joss Whedon, in support of Ray Fisher.

Ray Fisher played Cyborg in Justice League and came out against Joss and his abusive behavior. An official legal inquiry was opened. Charisma provided testimony to support Ray Fisher's claims and shared on social media what she had gone through — how she was psychologically abused during her tenure on Joss's shows. Her speaking out caused many more people from Joss Whedon's past works to come out to support her or share their own stories.

It's so hard to be the first one to do something, but it's so important. One person can make such a massive difference. Following that, Charisma wrote a piece for The Hollywood Reporter titled "How to Be an Ally of Victims of Abuse." In a time where an unprecedented number of people are coming forward sharing their stories, when people have access through social media to the people in their lives who care about them, to people who don't know them, to people who look up to them, and to people that are hateful little trolls — we don't always know how to react. Charisma's bravery is very appreciated and further cements my deep love of her, so I wanted to revisit one of my favorite movies of hers.

This movie — Deadly Sibling Rivalry — not only stars Charisma Carpenter, it stars two Charisma Carpenters. She is twins Janna and Callie. Not only is she a phenomenal actress, but she's so funny. And I love seeing doubles of my favorite actors. What a dream come true to have two Charismas on the screen.

These twins have a contentious history. As teens, they went rock climbing and their father falls to his death in front of them. Now, I will say this: maybe don't do an activity where you could die in front of your children. But it messes them up.

Fast forward to the present. Janna is a mom. She's careful, she's nice, she cares about her daughter more than anything. Instead of rock climbing and adventuring, she owns majority stake in a travel magazine where she writes about the adventures she wishes she could go on. Callie, her twin, is the so-called bad twin. She flits from place to place, no roots, is involved in some shady dealings, some prescription drug thievery, and whenever she comes to town, you know you're in for some trouble.

Janna's daughter is played by Krista Allen — who I know you know as young Jenna Rink in 13 Going on 30. She's in college now and has come back home to visit with her mom and is really excited that her Aunt Callie is visiting because Aunt Callie is fun and laid back, whereas her mother Janna is controlling. Like, yeah, that's what moms are for. Obviously your aunt is more fun. That's how it works.

This movie made the social media rounds again a few months ago because there's a scene — Callie's friend is played by Kyle Richards. Actress, Real Housewife of Beverly Hills, was an actress before that. She's Callie's shady friend involved in the drug dealings. Callie kills her, puts her in a freezer, and sits on top. It's an amazing, classic death scene — so ridiculous in the best way. In a movie where there are twins and there's an evil twin, obviously someone dies in a freezer. Every time that scene floats around Twitter because it has Kyle Richards, I have to go immediately watch Deadly Sibling Rivalry.

Janna and Callie, the twins, are in the car together and wind up in a car accident. Janna flags down help. Callie is in a coma. While Janna remains mostly unscathed, we see her rattled, shaken up, but relieved to be back with her daughter. Her daughter Fiona checks in on Callie, talks to her to help get her out of the coma because she heard that's good for coma patients. And Janna is just so happy to be alive that she says life is too short and starts being more "fun" with Fiona. But fun in the same way that Nick Cage in John Travolta's body is fun in Face/Off — where I'd be like, no, I don't want this much freedom.

She starts being more fun with her daughter, lets her drink wine, and her daughter's like, mom, you're cool now. And then her mom goes into the bathroom, closes the door, and — spoiler alert, as is revealed — it was Callie all along!

Callie has taken Janna's place and it is actually Janna who is in the coma. Callie is wearing Janna's scarf, but when she starts changing, we see the red lingerie that Callie had put on at the beginning of the film. It's such a good villain reveal. I truly gasped. She goes into the bathroom and you're like — her mom is going in to get changed or whatever. And she goes, I'm going to have to retrain that girl, and undoes her shirt. Boom! Callie's bra. Whoa.

Fiona starts to suspect something is wrong. She suspects her mother is actually the one in the coma. But no one believes her. This is just one of those movies where it's so fun from beginning to end. You're just like, oh my God, what? Oh my God, what?

There's a mother-daughter motorcycle ride. Very cool. One Charisma Carpenter shoots a shotgun at the other Charisma Carpenter. If that's not the description of your perfect movie, then we have nothing in common. I'm sorry. That's my perfect film.

Shared Themes

Our characters face a crisis when taking over someone else's identity, because a life that has been built on how they are perceived by others is suddenly shattered.

John Travolta in the body of Nick Cage — so Sean Archer, the nice FBI man, now wearing Nick Cage's crazy face and receding hairline — at first doesn't want to lean into Nick's identity, into Castor Troy. He aggressively does a bad job at being undercover, whether subconsciously or just because he's a dummy. He's like, hey, I arrested you — I mean, someone else did, I'm a bad guy. Up until he realizes Castor Troy is out in the world wearing his face, being him, taking over his life, and that everyone who knew he was undercover is now dead. No one's going to believe he isn't who he looks like.

He seems a lot less concerned with Castor Troy being out in the world, sleeping with his wife, being bad, having a bomb — and a lot more concerned with: no one is going to know who I am. The fact that Castor Troy has killed everyone who could vouch for Sean Archer's true identity really sends Archer into a tailspin.

And then we see how quickly people accept Castor Troy in Sean Archer's body — Castor Troy in the John Travolta body, slapping butts, having a nice time. Margaret Cho, one of his employees, is like, finally, you're fun and you'll drink with us. It's so weird to see how much they love him not being himself.

Castor Troy in the body of John Travolta never really attempts to take on John's identity. He tamps down his own craziness the teeniest bit so as not to fully give up the game, but he doesn't do a great job. He continually comments on missing his old face, his old body, his weird new John Travolta chin. He risks his freedom to get the Nick Cage face back. He needs his face back. He's obsessed with it. He really is loud and proud about loving himself. It's incredibly important to him that people see him as Nick Cage and not as Sean Archer.

Sean Archer in Nick Cage's body is so crushed to be thought of as evil. He just cries for most of the movie. He so quickly has to be reminded who he is — he gets Nick Cage's face put on him and his bosses are like, hey, hey, it's okay, you're Sean Archer wearing Nick Cage's face. It's fine, cool it.

In Deadly Sibling Rivalry, Callie is thrilled by the reception she gets as Janna. People trust her. They let her in. She's not thought of as a flake, as a criminal. She's always been jealous of Janna, envious of the life she lives, and now she gets to fully immerse herself in that life. She talks about herself in this third-person way, constantly complaining to other people about Callie, and she waits for other people to agree, expecting them to. It throws her off when Fiona doesn't — when Fiona sees the good in Callie.

She's frustrated by Fiona's constant support of Callie. Fiona's love for someone who flits in and out of her life. Callie doesn't understand how Fiona could keep loving her. It's clear that if Callie had had that sort of support throughout her life, things could have turned out differently. But she shakes that off, angry, and goes back to trashing the supposed Callie in the coma.

At this point, everyone thinks Callie is the one in the coma. The police want to interrogate her. She's in a coma. She can't talk. But then she wakes up. Janna wakes up and is told that she's Callie. And because she has amnesia, she goes along with it. She fully loses her identity. She doesn't quite jive with being Callie — who they say Callie is, someone who has committed crimes — but she doesn't know what else to believe. It's easier to accept what doctors tell her, what police tell her.

Fiona has to convince her who she is, of the incredible mother she is, to bring her back to herself. It's her love for her family, for her daughter, for her father, that brings back her memories and allows her to gather the strength to protect herself and her daughter from Callie's rage.

Face/Off and Deadly Sibling Rivalry are about identity and about how inhabiting the life of someone else causes our characters to further discover who they really are deep down — because there's this realization that at the end of the day, we can't escape ourselves, for better or for worse.

John Travolta, Sean Archer in the Nick Cage body, truly wigs out. He is distraught with how people look at him, what they expect him to be. He is so weirdly pumped when he finds out Castor is the father of Gina Gershon's son, because he gets to hug this little boy and play a fatherly role. Now, he does hug the little boy while screaming his dead son's name, and Gina Gershon is like, okay, please stop, you're scaring him. But Sean Archer's identity as a father is so important to him. He needs that affection. Getting to connect as a father again is what drives him — it's what brings him back to himself and laser-focuses what he needs to do to get his life back.

Nick Cage, Castor Troy in John Travolta's body, becomes so weird because he feels this need to prove himself. It's like he's constantly showing off. He wants all these FBI people to be kissing his butt so he can be like, ha ha, I got them. And it's like, well yeah, you work with them. And he's like, no, but I'm secretly a bad guy. Ha ha. He just needs that. He needs this fear of himself.

In Deadly Sibling Rivalry, we have two women who don't want to admit that there are things about themselves they would like to change. So they reject those things in others wholeheartedly. Janna and Callie are like oil and water, hating everything about the other person because they see what they themselves lack.

Janna clearly misses adventuring, is wistful over the people she features in her magazine who are living the lives she writes about. Everyone sees Janna as this uptight person without understanding how the death of her father led her to wanting to stay safe, to be cautious. When she believes that she is Callie, she doesn't feel quite right hearing the things Callie is accused of doing. She wonders how she could have gotten here. It's her love for her daughter that brings her back from the amnesia.

Everyone thinks of Janna as boring, as a stick in the mud, and there's a certain freedom to inhabiting the skin of carefree Callie. She's willing to bust out with her daughter because a little bit of pressure is lifted, a little bit of expectation. She warns her daughter though, when they're making their escape from the hospital, about being careful, about potentially getting in trouble. And her daughter Fiona laughs and is like, see, you are my mom. Callie doesn't care about getting in trouble. Janna, in this weird way, finds the best of both worlds in this post-amnesia state.

Callie is the more conflicted of the duo. She lives life carefree, globetrotting, but is resentful of the peace and harmony that Janna has with her daughter. Callie makes reckless decisions that lead to her getting in trouble with the law, but she sees a way out in the form of taking over Janna's life. As Janna, she realizes even further what she's been missing — the love of Janna's daughter, just the respect she gets, having a home to call her own. Instead of coming to terms with the things she doesn't have, she tries to destroy them.

The rivalries we witness are deeply personal because the people our characters love have gotten caught in the crossfire. Revenge is a powerful motivator, one that gives our characters some strange sense of control. In pursuit of revenge, they finally feel like they're working towards something.

Castor Troy has taken everything from Sean Archer — and by everything I mean his weird son whose face he rubs. He kills that son and Sean never recovers. So Sean is willing to have his face ripped off and replaced with another face to see through ending the criminal streak of Castor Troy. He gives up his wife and his daughter so quickly — yeah, of course I'll abandon them and wear a new face, great. He couldn't do anything to save his son Mike, so he thinks this is how he makes amends. But then when he's actually faced with the thought of losing who he is, that's when he's motivated. That's when he's like, okay, no, I have to get back to my life. A life he had been working to escape, a life he had been absent from. Joan Allen was like, oh my God, please just come home, you loser. But revenge keeps him going. It's only when he overcomes that revenge and is out to reunite with his family that he's able to save himself.

In Deadly Sibling Rivalry, Callie kills her own father when she's trying to kill her sister. She blames this on her sister. She never wanted her father to die, but it happened because of her jealousy. And so now she has to make that horrible mistake worth it. She has to get rid of the person she sees as the architect of her misery: Janna. She's given the opportunity to take Janna's life for herself and she does. When she realizes that doesn't change who she is at her core — that Kyle Richards can still sniff her out and say, I knew you were a rat, I see your hand on your hip like the uppity jerk you are — Callie can't escape herself. This revenge drives her insane. Because she can't put it aside, can't come to terms with Janna, she basically kills herself in this quest.'

What Deadly Sibling Rivalry Does Better

Despite being played by two different actors, the two main characters of Face/Off are not particularly distinct, whereas Charisma Carpenter creates two very different people in Deadly Sibling Rivalry.

According to IMDB trivia, in Face/Off, Nicolas Cage and John Travolta spent two weeks together before filming to learn how to play each other. They decided on specific gestures and vocal cadences for each character that could be mimicked. To that I say: you did a bad job. This is straight up just two Nick Cages almost immediately. Two Castor Troys. Castor in Sean's body doesn't try to blend in at all — he acts as though he's making fun of it the entire time. So John Travolta is basically doing a Nick Cage and Nick Cage is doing a Nick Cage.

Nick Cage just screams. He's supposed to be the FBI agent, the calm one. He should be the more walled-off Sean Archer. Instead he just goes bananas. Yes, okay, it's fun to see everyone acting wacky. But it's frustrating that Sean does not retain who he is when he's in this new body, except for his weird thing with touching little boys' faces. Oh my God — I can't get over the fact that he adopts Castor Troy's son and his daughter immediately is like, let me just put my entire hand on this boy's face. I would rather live with Nick Cage than with these freaks.

Nick Cage as Sean Archer acting like Nick Cage, John Travolta as Castor Troy acting like Nick Cage. Indistinct. Just immediately both full-blown crazy in a way that makes it hard to determine the real effects of the face swap.

In Deadly Sibling Rivalry, Charisma's two sisters are more distinct — and they're played by the same person. There is an art to this. One Charisma Carpenter has mastered, one people like Tatiana Maslany have mastered.

Even when we don't know yet that Charisma is playing Callie pretending to be Janna, there are subtleties to her performance that let you know something is off — things you can really pick up on on a second watch. They are two fully distinct women, women who wonder about the effects of nature versus nurture, women who have carved out separate lives despite having all the same advantages and opportunities. It's fascinating to wonder what it is that shapes us.

Callie ponders that something went awry in her nurturing since she and Janna are identical, and she constantly rips on Janna out of misplaced jealousy. I have empathy for both women. Yes, one of them murders Kyle Richards in a freezer, tried to murder her sibling, accidentally murdered her dad. But man, do I feel for that sibling rivalry.

And yes, I'm a twin. Sharing a birthday with someone, it's tough. You share all milestones. You go to the same schools, take the same tests, go to college at the same time. Everything is both of you and you want to differentiate. It's so hard not to nickel-and-dime your parents in terms of the time they spend with your sibling. Everything given to one sibling, you want as well. I feel for this woman who thinks she's gotten the short end of the stick, whose envy of the relationship between her sister and her dad leads to the biggest tragedy in her life.

Callie is clearly unwell and projects her hatred and anger onto Janna, who really just wants to do what's best for her daughter. I understand both of these women. That may come down to the fact that Face/Off feels very black and white, while Deadly Sibling Rivalry explores many facets of humanity.

The director of Face/Off, John Woo, is all about good versus evil in his works — it's a major theme. Nick Cage is given almost no redeemable characteristics. He's just evil. We don't even have the emotional payoff of Castor Troy finding out he has a son — we get Sean Archer in Nick Cage's body finding out about the relationship. Castor is just a bad guy through and through. Sean Archer is our supposed good guy. He just gets pass after pass. He's a terrible husband and father. He's just disengaged and grumpy. Somebody should have sent him home to take a nap. There are no shades of gray to these two characters.

What's so interesting about Deadly Sibling Rivalry is that I can see myself in both of these women. With Callie, even at her darkest, I understand it. I can feel for what she's been through, that she goes through life thinking she's less than. And Janna has sympathy for Callie, which is so important. Janna is upset with how things end. Fiona is surprised when Janna mourns her sister. But Janna points out — at the end of the day, no matter what, that's her family.

There's a humanity, a code, a backbone, a personality to these women that shines through and makes me want to support them and watch them and follow their story. Face/Off has some great action sequences, but are we invested in either of these men? Sean Archer is supposed to be our hero, but he spends a lot of the time crying and saying peach. We don't know them — not the way I feel I know Callie and Janna so clearly.

I hope you will give Deadly Sibling Rivalry a watch. It is on Tubi. It's very fun. Or rent it wherever you rent movies. Make sure you read Charisma Carpenter's Hollywood Reporter column — it is really important, really helpful, critical required reading for people with the access we have to people whose lives we don't know.

Hit me up at @tastelesspod on social media. We can talk about how incredible it is to watch two Charisma Carpenters in the same scene. We can talk about the fact that I'm a twin and I have yet to murder my father trying to murder my sibling, so I have that going for me.

Nicole Bilderback | Strong Female Leads

Nicole Bilderback Strong Female Leads

Nicole Bilderback (Bring It On, Mercenaries, Brooklyn Nine-Nine) is part of the very fabric of good teen movie making and has continuously graced our screens with laughter and action. We talked lip-synching to the earworm that is Mickey, the similarities between dancing and fighting, and the importance of being informed about the world around you.

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Addicted to Love: Judy vs Gia

Judy vs Gia

Two biopics about troubled women with star power and polarizing personalities — it’s Judy vs Gia.

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Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two biopics about troubled women with star power and polarizing personalities. It's Judy versus Gia.

Judy

Legendary performer Judy Garland arrives in London in the winter of 1968 to perform a series of sold-out concerts.

This movie came out in 2019 and has an 81% on Rotten Tomatoes. It won an Oscar — Renée Zellweger won for Best Actress, which is why I thought of doing this movie. I was talking about Bombshell last week — Renée Zellweger beat Charlize Theron for Best Actress, but Bombshell won Best Makeup. You win some, you lose some.

I think Renée Zellweger's performance deserves recognition and accolades if for nothing else for the fact that she captured Judy's voice, her singing voice, which is absolutely insane. IMDB trivia tells us that Renée spent a year training with the vocal coach Eric Vetro before shooting began, then rehearsed with musical director Matt Dunkley for four months to master her vocals.

Number one, it's crazy to think about how much time people spend so that they can pretend — so that they can be in a movie. And it makes me wonder: does someone have to have that in them a little bit? We know Renée can sing. She was nominated for an Oscar for Chicago. But if you have the best trainers in the world, can you be trained to do anything? Like if I had four months where I could just do whatever the vocal coach told me, could I get Judy Garland's voice? Or did they pick Renée because they already knew she could tap into it somehow? It's so fascinating to me.

Renée is super talented, comedically delightful, and she really does capture Judy here. I watched a bunch of Judy Garland interviews because one thing I was struck by that didn't quite work for me in the movie, even if it was accurate, was that I was wondering if Judy was so — yuck yuck, hey mister — in real life. In the movie, at one point they say something like, oh, the biggest living legend, and she goes, Frank Sinatra's here? Like, obviously they're talking about her and she's making a joke. I was ready for her to get a cap with a propeller and just start spinning it while shooting both her eyebrows up and down.

There's this very performative, old-school, pratfall-almost type of comedy that Judy does throughout this film. I watched some interviews and you do get that sense a little bit — that she was always on, nothing was ever serious, she had to make a joke out of everything. So it's hard to tell where she's coming from.

As talented as I think Renée is, it's hard when a biopic is being made about someone and their family doesn't necessarily want that. Liza Minnelli, Judy Garland's daughter, did not approve of this movie. Prior to the film's release, Liza stated through her Facebook account that she had never met nor spoken to Renée Zellweger and made it clear she personally did not approve of the project nor sanction it in any way. That's tough. You don't want that to keep us from exploring the lives of people that were such a part of the fabric of culture, but it also does suck. Imagine a movie coming out about your mom at her worst moments and everyone's talking about it and giving it awards. Oh, it was incredible. I cried. Okay, but I lived that. It must be awful.

To make Renée into Judy, makeup designer Jeremy Woodhead had to prosthetically extend the tip of her nose. Dark gray contact lenses were used to approximate Garland's dark brown eyes and a cropped walnut brown wig was fashioned to resemble Garland's iconic hairdo. Walnut is not a sexy color name. Oh, what nice walnut hair you have.

I think the pieces we have chosen of Judy's life to focus on are odd. This film focuses on these last few months of her life in London, and it's such a strange thing to carve out and use to define someone. In this movie, and when she died, Judy was only 47 but she looks 100 years old. I called my mom — she adores this movie, loved Judy Garland — and I was like, why did Judy look 80 years old? And my mom pointed out that not only was she drinking and drugging hard, but people just looked older. If you watch Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, Bette Davis looks about 200 years old and was 54. It's so odd to realize she was only 47. That is trash.

Jessie Buckley plays Rosalyn, kind of Judy's only friend in the present-day storyline. She's not even really Judy's friend — she's basically there to keep an eye on her and make sure she gets to the stage each night. Burt is my favorite character. He plays piano for her, played by Royce Pierreson, who was also a hunk in The Witcher. I really liked him. He just has to roll with the punches when she changes up the set list. When Judy first gets to London, she shows up to rehearsal and Burt is just so happy — he's going to get to play piano for Judy Garland. And Judy's like, ugh, I want to go rest, I'm tired. And they're like, well, the show is tomorrow. And she's like, okay, bye, I'm going to go lay down.

As we explore the current-day storyline, we see some fans of hers. She's wondering, are there people waiting at the stage door for me after my shows? Rosalyn's kind of like, I mean, not really, but do you want to go get a drink? And Judy says no. She goes to the stage door and there's this couple — these two gay guys that adore her. They've bought tickets to see her every night. They get her autograph. And then she goes, hey, do you guys want to get some dinner? Everywhere is closed, so they go back to these guys' house and they make really bad eggs.

By the way, that's my dream. Imagine running into your favorite celebrity and they're like, can I come over?

This scene of her cooking eggs is the most human you see her in the movie. Even though she is still putting on a show for these guys, it was the most connected to her, because you see her seeing someone else. She's talking to one of the men and he's kind of crying because it's been hard for them, and she looks around and notices the pictures of herself on the wall and she sees what her music has meant to these men. She gets a different perspective than the one of the jaded performer. It's in those moments that I really do appreciate what Renée Zellweger can do.

But I have a hard time with the more fantastical elements because it felt like two separate movies. When we go into the childhood, everybody is so mean to her all the time. Everything is the worst. The movie opens with this really great recreation of The Wizard of Oz set. Some bigwig — I think it's Louis B. Mayer — is basically saying, look Judy, other girls are pretty, but you've got a voice. But we will replace you if we have to.

I had never thought about what Judy went through. How many pills she was given to keep her — basically they said, take these diet pills instead of eating, take these pills to stay awake so we can shoot longer hours, take these pills to do this. She didn't have a childhood. That's what went into making The Wizard of Oz — a miserable, unhappy, abused, stunted girl. Her life was ruined. Not just by this movie, but by the same machine that made this movie, that made all of her movies.

So to rewatch The Wizard of Oz feels strange. As we assess what went into creating the art that we watch — this movie that means so much to so many, that's a part of people's childhood, was this girl's waking nightmare. I would have loved to explore that more. I felt like this movie chose very weird elements to focus on and had these little hints, glimpses, almost connections to things I'm really intrigued by and then would move away and go back to one of Judy's husbands.

Finn Wittrock plays Mickey Deans, her last husband. Finn Wittrock is gorgeous, but he does do a click-your-heels joke to Judy very quickly after meeting her and it's like — get out of here. How dare you say that to her. Leave her alone.

And we haven't even gotten into her children — Liza Minnelli, Lorna Luft, Joey Luft. Why does someone like this have children? She wants to do right by them, but she has such a focus on herself as she has been taught to have. She just can't be there for her kids. She has to make money. And then while making money, she does pills and she drinks. When she basically ends her run of shows in London, Rosalyn says to her very seriously, very earnestly, are you going to be all right? She says, yeah, I'll be fine. No, she's not. Why ask her that? You're not going to help her. You're just another person who made money off of her and now she's going to go along her way. It's very much like what's happening with Britney Spears — we're all so worried about Britney. Not enough to do anything, but somebody should go help her. What are you going to do to help her, Rosalyn?

It's on Amazon Prime and Hulu. It's interesting. I'm glad I watched it. It's not my cup of tea in terms of biopics, but to see Renée Zellweger capture that voice is really incredible.

Gia

The story of the life of Gia Carangi, a top fashion model from the late 1970s, from her meteoric rise to the forefront of the modeling industry, to her untimely death.

This came out in 1998. It has a 92% on Rotten Tomatoes — though it's not a totally fair comparison because it only has 13 critical reviews, while Judy has 333. This was an HBO made-for-TV movie. Angelina Jolie won the Golden Globe for portraying Gia and Faye Dunaway won Supporting Actress for her role as Wilhelmina Cooper, the modeling agency woman. She tied with Camryn Manheim for The Practice. I adore Camryn Manheim, by the way — she's in Romy and Michele, has the yearbook, has some great scenes with Janeane Garofalo.

All the awards should have been given to Angelina Jolie and to Elizabeth Mitchell, her co-star in this film. But we've got to start with Angelina.

Angelina Jolie has the it factor in the same way that Gia did, which adds an extra layer of intrigue to this movie. Gia was a real model who in her short life took the modeling industry by storm. Angelina got painted with such harsh brushstrokes, and as the years go on she just continues to use her influence and her access for good to help people. You have to appreciate that she walks the walk. And I think she is very, very talented.

Her portrayal of Gia is particularly interesting because — this isn't an official comparison, just something interesting — Renée, to become Judy, had to study and become her. Angelina Jolie is a good actress, a really good actress. But to find someone who has that same star quality that Gia herself had, something you can't put your finger on but you are just drawn to them — Angelina has had that forever. You watch her in a movie and you are drawn to her. She has this sense of humor that carries through her work. There's a cleverness and awareness in her roles that I enjoy, a quirked eyebrow. She draws you in.

Even when she's more naive, in Maleficent, her sense of humor shines through. She knows what she knows and she's this undeniable force. I watched By the Sea, the film she directed with her and Brad Pitt just sort of hating each other, and she is so watchable. She brings Gia's story into such vivid focus.

Gia, in one of the first scenes we see her in, meets this guy who likes her and she takes him to a tattoo parlor. They don't wind up getting the tattoos, but Gia is the kind of person you get a tattoo for. She's energy and excitement and fun. She envelopes people, brings people into her fold. So when she meets some people outdoors that ask her to come back to their place to take pictures of her, we see how that translates into the camera.

At her first big photo shoot, her makeup artist is Linda, played by Elizabeth Mitchell, who she connects with immediately when she opens Linda's can of Tab for her. Elizabeth Mitchell is perhaps best known for Lost. I know her from this movie and from a great arc on Once Upon a Time where she has an ice cream shop and she's a snow queen. She is another insanely charismatic person. To watch her and Angelina share screen time is a lot to handle because it's so good.

It would have been really easy for the other character playing opposite Angelina's Gia to become overpowered by the chaotic energy of that role. But Elizabeth provides the perfect push and pull. There's a strength to her. And through her, you can see how someone would fall so hard for Gia despite the major lows that come with all the highs.

This movie's handling of Gia's relationship with Linda was impressive. These two women loved each other. And as media in 2021 continues to struggle with portraying romances that aren't heterosexual, I really appreciated that Gia never made a big deal of the love between Gia and Linda. It was inevitable. Of course they're drawn to one another. Gia's mom is kind of like, why are you sending flowers to a girl? But this movie isn't about homophobia. It's not about struggling with a sexual identity. Gia is fully herself and she loves Linda. And the fact that the two are both women is never even an issue raised between the two of them.

Linda has a boyfriend but is enthralled by Gia and can't stay away. She's the most solid person in Gia's life, but she can't give everything in the way Gia wants. Gia is very needy. Despite her deep love for Linda, Gia can never quite commit.

This movie is told through both a narrative arc and various characters speaking to the camera as though they are doing an interview about Gia. The bits of the film that are interviews — which take place after Gia has died from AIDS-related complications from sharing needles — give us the most sympathetic but also real look at who Gia was. Linda knew her better than anyone. Knew her shortcomings and appreciated her for who she was while also acknowledging Gia needed more. Gia always needed more.

The film allows us to really gradually fall in love with Gia despite the more frustrating elements of her — despite her drug addiction, her inability to say no. You feel for her. There's a line delivery where Gia is meeting Wilhelmina Cooper for the first time at the modeling agency. When she gets there, there are just all these blonde, clean-cut women. So she says to her potential employer, if I had known you were looking for Marsha effing Brady, I would have stayed home. Which ties for me all-time Marsha Brady references with Cruel IntentionsI feel like I'm the Marsha effing Brady of the Upper East Side and sometimes I want to kill myself. So Sarah Michelle Gellar and Angelina Jolie — great work.

Faye Dunaway plays Wilhelmina Cooper. She gives Gia her first big break and they become really close, with her serving as a mother figure to Gia, who needs so much support. Her real mother is played by Mercedes Ruehl — a well-intentioned woman who doesn't understand the darkness Gia can go to when she feels untethered, who maybe is aware of it but doesn't want to acknowledge it. So when Wilhelmina dies, Gia is sent into a tailspin.

The movie is definitely a made-for-TV biopic, so it's overdramatic in a lot of ways. But there's still a heart here and a realism. There are some really funny parts. It sounds like an afterschool-special bummer of heroin use, but it isn't — there's humor because there was humor in Gia's life. That's how Gia dealt with things.

And yeah, there's a lot of naked Angelina Jolie. I feel like that's what this movie got known for — it was on the top naked scenes on Mr. Skin. If that's what you're coming to this movie for, you're going to be bummed. I mean, I guess you're going to have a great time. But the story here is really good and there's a lot of heart, and this is somebody I wouldn't have known about otherwise.

I was watching interviews with the real Gia and it's such a bummer. Bummer is not a serious enough word. It's sad to watch someone that clearly had so much passion but clearly was having such a hard time. In the interviews, she's talking a mile a minute. She has so much she wants to say that she can't get out. I think she had a hard time dealing with all the thoughts going around in her head.

I appreciated getting this look at her — who she wanted to be and how she contended with finding out she was one of the first women with AIDS the doctors were dealing with. It was new. She had to come to terms with dying young. It is currently on HBO Max. I really recommend it. It's one of Angelina's best roles.

Shared Themes

Biopics are not usually a genre I seek out because I find it's either someone I already know too much about — so then you know what's gonna happen — or it's somebody you don't know and you're like, okay, this may as well just be a movie. But I've realized over the last year that I've been unfair to them. I do appreciate seeing a more honest look at the lives of women who were always presented to us as either angels or demons. Women who we oohed and aahed over until their humanity became too much for us to bear. Until the sad reality of what led them here, led them to success, made us feel too guilty, too unclean.

In these movies, we explore the life of a woman with substance abuse problems, a woman who was chewed up and spit out by the entertainment industry. If you're going into your office job, no one is going to put up with your pill popping. You're going to lose the job. But for Judy and for Gia, their substances of choice are how they got through the day. And because other people are making so much money off of them, they look the other way instead of trying to help. It's not anyone else's responsibility to help them — they're both very young when they first become embroiled in these worlds — but we see this in the entertainment industry so often because these women become commodities.

The films Judy and Gia do a good job of exploring the women's addiction without sensationalizing it, without trivializing it. We see it as a fact of their lives, as something they both struggle with.

Judy was given all sorts of pills from day one to keep her thin, keep her focused, keep her fitting the mold the studio wanted. So when those pills became an addiction, as she took more and more to balance out her emotions, the studio didn't see it as a problem. It wasn't until it cut into their bottom line that Judy was ousted. And then she's basically given a babysitter for her London shows — a babysitter who knows to have a doctor on hand, who gets Judy dressed even as she's half out of it, whose job is to get Judy on stage no matter the condition she's in.

Judy knows it. She comments on it, jokes in interviews about the pills she was given as a child. She somehow separates herself from the trauma she endured, uses it as a punchline, and doesn't acknowledge how it shaped who she is now. She drinks as well, trying to numb her feelings because she hasn't been allowed to have any since childhood when she was simply a cog in a machine. You can't go from that life to normal life. She isn't equipped for it. So she stays in the cycle — drugs to get on stage, drugs to sleep, drugs for the nerves of performing, so she can make money, so she can be with her children.

Gia's drug use was not necessarily workplace approved in the way Judy's had been, but everyone knew of it and for a long time looked the other way. When it started affecting her performance, people whispered about her, laughed at her, complained about having to work with her. One photographer hires her anyway knowing she's having problems and treats her with kindness. But even that isn't helpful because she continues making horrible choices for her body.

It's devastating when her friend comes to visit and she asks if he has money, clearly wanting to go buy drugs. He says no. She says, well, if you want to have sex with me, give me some money and you can. Later in the film, when we think she's doing a little better, she goes into a creepy alley and is assaulted by men she tries to buy drugs from. She does heroin, something difficult to kick even in the times she goes to rehab. It's too easily accessible to her. She's so young and it makes her life go more smoothly, she thinks. She worries about getting back into modeling after a stint in rehab and does just a little bit of drugs just to take the edge off. And Linda sees and is so disappointed. But it's clear Gia can't help herself.

These women's addictions are fed, ignored, glossed over to keep them making other people money. No one wants to stick their neck out and stop the gravy train.

In Judy and in Gia, our protagonists have someone else they try to be better for, someone they want to devote their life to. But those people are never enough. And that's the heartbreak of these movies — watching these women desperately try to be there for those they love, but getting sucked back under by their addictions again and again. There's a depressing, stark realism here, showing that even love, even the potential for happiness, even knowing there's a better way — it doesn't stop addiction.

Judy was in this business since she was a child. She doesn't have life skills. She can't get a job at Taco Bell. All she can do is sing for her supper. And yet performing is what leads her to having problems, what causes her to use and abuse pills and alcohol. But she wants to be with her children so badly. Her children are who she lives for. But to be with them, she needs money to buy a house. They're sick of being shuttled around from hotel to hotel. To get money, she needs to perform. To perform, she needs drugs. And therefore she is unfit to see her children. It's a vicious cycle. Each time she seems about to escape it, she is dragged down by the inevitability of her addiction.

She's been numbed throughout life, so she can't handle true emotion, leading her from one man with false promises to another. These husbands of hers took from her, destroyed her career, lost her all her money. So she is one of the most famous people, one of the most iconic singers, struggling to get money to have somewhere to live.

With her children in their happiest moments, she is still performing, playing make-believe. Her children know this on some level. Her daughter Lorna, despite being young, seems to almost be humoring her mother when they're on the phone together, when her mother tells them about her plans for the future. You can tell she has such a love for these kids. But she didn't have a childhood, so she doesn't know what to do with them. She doesn't know how to relate to them. This play-acting she does with them is so strange, and it insulates her from any real relationship with these kids.

It makes me wonder about Liza Minnelli — about her relationship with Judy in real life, about how you feel when the rest of the world has a piece of your mother that you don't.

Gia had a reckless nature before she got into modeling, before she got into drugs, but it was clear based on her actions and the testimony of those that knew her that she had a big heart. She was desperate for love and acceptance, but she always gave it back in kind. She opened people up. She was excited to be around everyone, curious about them. She was taken with Linda immediately, intrigued by the woman who didn't judge her the way the other makeup artists and models did.

At the photo shoot where she meets Linda, the photographer is like, who wants to stay and take some naked pictures? The other models are like, ew, bye. And Gia says, I'll stay if Linda stays. And Linda stays and joins in. Gia knows Linda is special. Linda is unafraid and strong in all the ways that Gia pretends to be, in the ways that Gia is vulnerable. They are a natural pair.

Gia tries so desperately to get clean for Linda, but the pull of drugs is too much. At one point when they have reunited and she promises to be clean and they're laughing, they're hugging — Linda's laughter turns to sobs racking her body because Gia has snatched back the little baggie of drugs from Linda that Linda thought they would finally be rid of. Gia can't let it go.

No matter where she is in her life, Linda is not far from Gia's mind. She calls her, she thinks of her, she wants to make it work. Her last visit with Linda made me sob. I mean, the whole movie made me sob, but it's so brutal. I'm tearing up a little bit thinking about the scene where Gia and Linda are hugging and Gia knows that she's dying and Linda doesn't know. Oh my God.

Love, adoration — it isn't enough to overcome addiction. Both women's lives are cut short before they can become clean. Judy died of an accidental overdose and Gia's years of intravenous drug use led to AIDS. Judy was only 47 and Gia was just 26.

We look at women like this from the outside — models, singers — and we think they have it all. We wonder how they could throw it away for drugs. But these stories show us how addiction has no logic. It has no boundaries. It can take hold of anyone.

Judy and Gia are two women that are difficult, that can be unlikable. The worst thing you can be as a woman, right? Unlikable. They're unlikable right up until you adore them. Those who fall for Judy and Gia fall hard. They're polarizing figures.

Judy Garland was not someone I had personally thought much about. I liked The Wizard of Oz. As we see her life unfold, we watch the more current Judy struggle to find work, struggle to get paid, even as she still has those people that adore her. And I didn't get it. Not until we meet the fan couple outside. After Judy tells Rosalyn she doesn't want to get drinks with her, saddened by the thought that no one is waiting for her, no one is interested in her — she meets this couple. To see her through the eyes of these people that adore her showed me another side of her. The way she inspires. What her voice can bring up for people.

We see how nervous the men are to impress this iconic figure in their world and what it means to them to share a quiet night with her. She says to these guys, when one of them is talking about what he and his partner have been through: they hound people in this world, anybody who's different, they can't stand it. Well, to hell with them.

There is a kindness in her, a twinkle in her eye, and in that moment I was like — I get it. I would go to the ends of the earth for Judy Garland. You watch her interviews in real life and you see that laugh, that wry humor, how she contends with how other people see her. I think you could watch that and think, this woman's full of herself, or rude, or disconnected. But I watch it and I just see someone trying to deal with the cards they've been dealt.

Gia was a mostly unknown figure to me before I saw this movie for the first time, and I've thought about it a lot since. Angelina built a legacy for Gia, gave viewers an understanding of someone we didn't know. Someone who on first glance is overbearing, too much. But because I was able to spend two hours with her, I understood where that brashness was coming from. The vulnerability underneath, the fear she masks but doesn't ever truly hide. A fear she's willing to admit while continuing the tough girl act.

The other women at her photo shoots, upon seeing her, dislike her. She's different, she's loud. Near the beginning she has a mullet haircut. It's not great. A makeup artist upon her entrance says, oh my God, she's a beast. She scares me. And yet as he says that, he sees Gia for the first time and loves her.

I was watching interviews — I was trying to make sure I could pronounce Gia Carangi's last name. And on YouTube there's a series of talks between Cindy Lindner, who is the person Linda is based on, and model Carol Alt. They talk about Gia, about seeing her and just being entranced. There was something about this woman. The people who like her love her.

These women evoke strong responses. Men yell at Judy from her audience as women cackle behind Gia's back. And yet both have people who adore them. Nobody feels truly neutral about these women once they meet them. You either marry Judy Garland or you scream at her from her audience. And for Gia, you love her or you're scared of her.

What Gia Does Better

Judy was a big-budget, incredible, prestige-film biopic. But I think there are a few things in the honesty of Gia that are worth a look if you can only watch one of these movies.

I didn't feel a connection to Judy in the same way I did to Gia. Despite not having Gia as part of my personal cultural landscape in the way that Judy is, the way Judy's story is told — the last few months of her life and then her younger days — kept the parts of her too compartmentalized. Whereas Gia's linear story with the use of interspersed interviews provided a fuller picture of who Gia was.

The two halves of Judy felt disconnected. Young Judy and old Judy were completely different people. Yes, some of the young Judy flashbacks were in direct relation to what older Judy had going on, but older Judy acknowledged her past only with laughter. There was no reconciliation of what happened to her with what she's going through. This felt like a movie portrayal of a person rather than a real person. Renée is really fantastic, but it's an impersonation of what we already know. There are no new shades to this woman — simply a regurgitation of what has already been in the ether.

We see when she's talking to a doctor about her voice and the doctor says, do you take anything for depression? And she says, four husbands didn't work. She is never serious. I appreciate her humor being captured, but to see so few real moments from her in this exploration of her life made it hard to get on board.

From the first moment in Gia, we see who Gia is. In one of her first exchanges, she says something so expository it should have been laughable. But it wasn't, because it's just who she is, just that honesty. This guy comes up to her — she's working at a diner — and this guy TJ says he's nervous. She says, am I making you nervous? Yeah. Well good, that's the idea. Scare the shit out of people so they can't see how scared you are.

She says it with no guile. She's truly herself in everything. And we see from those who talk about her what sort of role they played in her life. Everybody wanted to be loved by Gia, and they talk about her with a reverence. She saw people for who they were and she presented herself completely honestly.

Watching these two movies got me thinking — I may prefer a movie about someone I don't know as well, because we all have a picture of who Judy is. The movie either confirms or disabuses us of our preconceived notions. Judy brought up nothing new besides me being like, what? She was only 47? But Gia was not someone I knew much about. I didn't have expectations for her story.

I would have liked if Judy had shown me who Judy was — not just how she was treated. The Judy Garland we saw was constantly behind a mask. She had her vulnerable moments, but I didn't get a feeling of connection, of humanity. The movie feels like a very glossy version of her life. Even her saddest moments felt more for dramatic effect than to show me the reality of someone.

She says in this film, I'm only Judy Garland for an hour a night. Right? Meaning the other 23 hours she's a human being. But we only see the hour where she's Judy Garland. The other 23 hours make up so little of the film.

The ending has Judy saying, I love you all. You won't forget me, will you? Promise you won't. And we haven't. We're never going to forget Judy Garland. But do we know her at all? Are we remembering a real person or an amalgamation of talent and stories? A child chewed up by the Hollywood machine, an aging star with substance problems? We see her in a variety of boxes, as pieces instead of a whole. I never get a full picture to have sympathy for.

In Gia, over the course of the story, the viewer becomes enraptured by Gia — even if you don't know the model before watching the film. It's why those who left reviews were so positive. It's why the movie lives on on Film Twitter. Because if you do see it, you will feel for this woman. Gia opens herself up to love, and so we love her.

Of course she's less jaded than Judy. We see Judy after decades in the business. But I could connect with Gia in a way I would have loved from Judy.

I hope you will give Gia a chance. It's currently on HBO Max. It's one of Angelina's best roles. And Elizabeth Mitchell — two real solid heads of hair on those two, by the way..

Under the Surface: Jaws vs Bombshell

Jaws vs Bombshell

Two movies where the villain is shrouded, where decency must triumph over convenience and greed — it's Jaws vs Bombshell.

Episode Transcript & Breakdown

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two movies where the villain is shrouded, where humanity and decency must triumph over convenience and greed. It's Jaws versus Bombshell.

Jaws

When a massive killer shark unleashes chaos on a beach community off Long Island, it's up to the local police chief, a marine biologist, and an old seafarer to hunt the beast down.

This movie came out in 1975, has a 98% on Rotten Tomatoes. It won three Oscars — Best Sound, Best Film Editing (by the way, a woman, Verna Fields), and Best Original Score — again our guy John Williams. Will he ever be on the right side of a Tasteless pick? Looking at his long IMDB of classics, probably not. Jaws was also nominated for Best Picture, but lost to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

What struck me about Jaws is when the Kintner boy is killed and his mom puts out a reward for capturing the shark that did it. The reward is $3,000. People go to fight a shark for $3,000. And you're thinking, oh, that was old-timey money. Well, in today's purchasing power, that would be $14,586.36. Excuse me — would you go into the ocean to catch a shark for a little under $15,000? I don't think many people would.

We've got our classic characters here. Brody, played by Roy Scheider — he is the sheriff of this town, the law. He's a nice guy, he has a wife, he has kids, he wants to do what's right. He gets the famous line which, according to writer Carl Gottlieb, was not scripted but ad-libbed by Roy: you're gonna need a bigger boat. How many times do you think people say that to him every day? I would lose my mind.

Then we have the scientist Hooper, played by Richard Dreyfuss. I didn't remember that Hooper is rich. He comes to this town and he's like, hey, I hear shark stuff is happening. What's up? I got a boat, I got equipment. Also, I have all this stuff because I am very wealthy. My family is very wealthy and they just put me on a boat and said, go for it, man. He's out here measuring shark mouths, just having a good time.

Then we have Quint, played by Robert Shaw, wearing a sweater that looks very itchy. Quint is the seafarer from the plot description — he's the shark-hunting expert. His ship, his rules. He's like Boomhauer of the ocean.

Some insane IMDB trivia: though respected as an actor, Robert Shaw's trouble with alcohol was a frequent source of tension during filming. Roy Scheider described his co-star as a perfect gentleman whenever he was sober — all he needed was one drink and then he turned into a competitive son of a B. When it came time to shoot the infamous USS Indianapolis scene, Shaw attempted to do the monologue while intoxicated, as it called for the men to be drinking late at night. Nothing in the take could be used. A remorseful Shaw called Steven Spielberg late that night and asked if he could have another try. The next day, Shaw's electrifying performance was done in one take. Okay, I feel like he's getting an awful lot of leeway. Also, Shaw apparently bullied Richard Dreyfuss, which honestly, when you look at him in this movie, I wanted to bully him too, so I don't blame him for that.

When we talk about Brody, Hooper, and Quint, I cannot imagine three people I'd want to be stuck on a boat with less. When they're showing off their scars and it's supposed to be this great bonding scene, it's like — an eel bit me. Okay, cool, I guess. I don't know, are eels supposed to bite you? That's not a cool thing. I was arm-wrestling because I hate my ex-wives and now I can't extend my arm. Okay, great brag, Quint. What are you talking about?

I have a hard time with this movie because I am on the shark's side 100%. Just let this shark have the ocean. It's his. You lost. Your fleshy bodies keep getting eaten. Find somewhere else to hang out. Build a pool. I'm Team Bruce. Bruce, of course, is the name of the mechanical sharks they built for this set. In addition to the well-known nickname of Bruce, Steven Spielberg also called the shark "the great white turd." Notoriously, the shark broke down, didn't do what it was supposed to — they built it and were like, it works great. Then they put it in water and it didn't work because it didn't work in salt water. Nonsense.

But I am very scared, not of sharks, but of animatronics. As a child, probably 11 or 12, I went to Universal, went on the Jaws ride. In the ride, a big mechanical shark comes up to your boat and kind of splashes around and your tour guide is like, oh no, oh no, and shoots at it and flames explode. And I had nightmares for months after — not about being eaten by a shark, but about falling in and having the gears and mechanics grind me up that made the shark go. I did the Universal Studios tour in California within the last couple of years and again saw that mechanical shark and was like, no, he's gonna get me. He's hanging out in the Murder, She Wrote village.

Everyone has seen Jaws. You know the plot. There was a very fun trivia fact: several decades after the release of Jaws, Lee Fierro, who played Mrs. Kintner — the mother of the boy who gets eaten — walked into a seafood restaurant and noticed the menu had an Alex Kintner sandwich. She commented that she had played his mother so many years ago. The owner of the restaurant ran out to meet her. He was none other than Jeffrey Voorhees, who had played her son. They had not seen each other since the original movie shoot. Very cute. Very chill name for that kid, Jeffrey Voorhees.

Bombshell

A group of women take on Fox News head Roger Ailes and the toxic atmosphere he presided over at the network.

This movie came out in 2019, has a 68% on Rotten Tomatoes. It actually won the Oscar for Best Achievement in Makeup and Hairstyling for Kazu Hiro, Anne Morgan, and Vivian Baker.

My old roommate slash good friend is an incredible makeup artist, and she brought me along to a makeup guild screening of this film. It was such a great movie. I loved it. It had one of the best trailers of all time, as far as I'm concerned — where the three stars get into the elevator and that song is playing and they're looking at each other. It's so good.

At the screening, Kazu Hiro was there and mentioned that he had worked on Mighty Joe Young with Charlize. As it turns out, Charlize Theron coaxed prosthetic makeup artist Kazu Hiro out of retirement for his work on this film, and he won his second Academy Award for his efforts. He had previously won for Darkest Hour after turning Gary Oldman into Winston Churchill. When I saw the trailers, I thought her Megyn Kelly makeup was going to be distracting, but once you're watching the movie, it really works. She does a good job of recreating Megyn's look and vibe.

Charlize was nominated for Best Actress at the Oscars and Margot Robbie was nominated for Best Supporting Actress. Charlize lost to Renée Zellweger for Judy — people love a sad biopic — and Laura Dern won Supporting Actress for Marriage Story, which I am highly uninterested in. I think Margot's performance in this movie is incredible, as is Charlize's.

Let's talk Charlize. She plays Megyn Kelly, a real person, a Fox News host and anchor. She wields the word "feminist" like it's disgusting. She says at one point, I'm not a feminist, I'm a lawyer. The way they use the word feminist as an insult does remind the viewer of where we are, of what world we're in — slash just the human world. Having Charlize as Megyn narrate the story, talk to the camera — I really enjoyed it. When that works, it really works.

There's a hardness to her because there has to be to survive in this world. I am not a fan of the real Megyn Kelly — the one kind of big thing they allude to is that she said Santa is definitely white, which — okay, he's imaginary, so I don't know what you're talking about. But I'm not endorsing the actions of any Fox News employee by saying I love this movie. Regardless of party lines, this is a story that is important, a story that needs to be told. The fact that so many of these women had the same thing happen and all were worried about coming forward, about losing their livelihood — when Gretchen Carlson came forward, it broke a dam. There is bravery in that. We can't just care about crimes happening to people we agree with. That creates a bad system for everyone.

Nicole Kidman is perhaps the most sidelined in the movie as Gretchen Carlson, even though she gets the ball rolling on the charges against Roger Ailes. We see her talking to lawyers about the way she's been treated, playing back tapes of all the times on air that men said disparaging, disgusting things to her — and she bit back, but had to laugh it off, because otherwise it's going to be awkward. She had to act like she was in on the joke, like it was all in good fun. Because there's that famous saying: men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them. You don't want to set someone off.

It's very affecting to watch her watch herself. Think back about how you've handled difficult situations — I don't think all of us have always been at our best. She wants to make it clear that just because she laughed along awkwardly, that's not what she wanted. She doesn't want to be treated that way. And it's important to remember that just because someone laughs along, doesn't mean you should be saying those things.

Margot Robbie plays Kayla, the composite character of the trio — not based on a real person, but instead an amalgamation of various reports about working at Fox News. She's a quilt of the bad experiences these women have faced, and we empathize with her bright-eyed optimism, her wit.

The scene of real-life character Roger Ailes asking the fictitious character of Kayla Pospisil to lift up her skirt was filmed with multiple cameras capturing all the angles at once. Jay Roach didn't want Robbie to have to perform that scene for more than one take. This is a brutal scene and she plays it so well. It's so real. It's so striking.

Basically she goes in to meet with Roger and he says, stand up and do a little spin. And she's kind of like, what? He says, you know, on-air talent, you're going to be on camera, I just want to see you. And she goes, oh, okay, and does a little spin. He goes, okay, lift your skirt up a little bit. She pauses a little longer and pulls her skirt up a little bit. He goes, higher. She pulls it a little higher. Inch by inch, it comes up so you can see her underwear and she is mortified. She is humiliated. And he's like, okay, great, well, you better prove your loyalty, and sends her on her way. And the other heartbreaking thing — she's like, could you not tell anyone about this? And he's like, of course not. She doesn't want people to know, because she'll be blamed. She did it. She agreed to do it.

A reason it's so hard to watch is because, to a lesser extent, we've all been in situations where we go along with something we're not comfortable with so as not to rock the boat. Maybe someone says something inappropriate and you just sort of laugh and brush it off and hope it goes away.

Margot to me was the character I related to the most, and her relationship with Kate McKinnon is one of the more touching aspects of the film and one of the more frustrating and heartbreaking. Kate McKinnon plays a closeted lesbian, closeted Democrat who works at Fox and takes Margot under her wing. Kate basically says, here's how you survive here. Here's what you want in stories — you want to frighten and titillate. Ask yourself what would scare your grandmother and piss off your grandfather. That's a Fox News story. She's funny, but it's also sad that she can't be herself. Her and Margot wind up going home together, sharing a bed. There's a chemistry there. But neither can be who they are, and Kate has shoved her feelings so far down.

John Lithgow plays Roger Ailes in a lot of prosthetics. He's great. I love John Lithgow. Malcolm McDowell plays Rupert Murdoch. The supporting cast in this movie — I'm going to run through it. Darcy Carden gets to yell at Margot Robbie. Lennon Parham eats some grocery store sushi. Connie Britton plays Roger's wife and says at one point, very genuinely, hoodies are creepy. Alanna Ubach plays Judge Jeanine Pirro. Holland Taylor plays the secretary to Roger. Rob Delaney plays someone who works with Megyn. We've got Brie Larson, Josh Lawson and Ben Lawson as brothers, Liv Hewson, Richard Kind, Alice Eve, Madeline Zima, Ashley Greene, Katie Aselton, Tricia Helfer, Robin Weigert, Mark Duplass, Jennifer Morrison, Allison Janney. It is quite a cast.

Jay Roach directed another great political film, Game Change — and he directed all the Austin Powers movies, and that is called range.

Bombshell is a movie that I think you need to watch. It really does a good job of putting you in someone else's shoes. Would I have thought I'd watch and love a movie about Fox News? No. Absolutely not. But this movie did a great job of stripping away my biases, getting me on board with the universe we're in. Some people think it excused the women of Fox News, and that's where we get into a gray area, and we don't need to villainize. This is a story about assault. The villains here are the people who have built a system that allows that to happen without consequence, and that can happen to anyone.

Shared Themes

Jaws and Bombshell both have a villain that is lurking under the surface — an iceberg with most of the threat going unnoticed until it is far too late. A villain that people disagree on how to face. Some think their presence should be brushed under the rug, while others want to confront this villain head-on. It's insidious.

The villains are a real mean shark and workplace assault and objectification. Two sides of the same coin. Only those who have faced these threats themselves really understand the dangers. And other people are of the opinion: out of sight, out of mind. Don't go in the water. Don't wear a short skirt. But that's not feasible and it's not fair.

Jaws has one of the most iconic antagonists of all time in the form of its great white shark — a shark that gets only four minutes of screen time. The threat of the shark is what looms over the people of Amity, but the issue is that they disagree on just how big of a threat it is. We see this so clearly when Brody's wife comes in — Brody's reading a shark book and she's like, man, let's get drunk and fool around. The kids are out on some boat and Brody's like, oh my God, kids, get off the boat. And the wife goes, don't worry about it, they're fine. Then she flips open his book and sees a picture of a shark ripping flesh and immediately starts screaming at the kids to get back on land, listen to their dad. It takes seeing that picture in the context of her kids out on the water for it to feel like a real threat to her.

The fishermen that rush into the ocean to get their reward are giddy at the thought of this excursion. Chumming the waters, captaining their dinky boats, no fear, no respect for the wildlife. When Quint gets there, he basically says, hey dummies, sharks kill people. This is a problem and I could solve it. Everyone else had been very wishy-washy about wanting to keep the beaches open. They have this town hall meeting — the beaches are going to be closed? We gotta go to the beaches. Be quiet. Go away. People will come back to your beach. Chill out.

The main antagonist of Bombshell is Roger Ailes, though we explore the system that put him in power. If he had had beady little eyes and maybe too many teeth, would he have been taken down sooner? Seen as a real threat by those in his orbit, those who aren't directly threatened by him? Most people don't see Roger on a regular basis. He's on his own floor, his own office, with Holland Taylor guarding the door and a clicker remote that opens it. Very disconnected.

People joke about the workplace culture. They talk about how Roger has a separate elevator for women to arrive in. They joke about the other men there, like Bill O'Reilly. It's all said with a laugh, with no real threat. Margot loves Fox — it's been her dream to work there. She hears the stories about the misogyny in its ranks but continues to idolize the network until she comes face-to-face with Roger's harassment. Till he makes her lift her skirt.

She tries to bring this info to Kate McKinnon and is shut down. When Gretchen Carlson tells her story, many women of Fox scramble to support Roger, not wanting to look disloyal, knowing they can be replaced. Many women say it never happened to them, and one man comments that the women it hasn't happened to are not attractive. We see older people talking about how nice Roger is while younger women get more leg out to please him. We also hear the other side of Roger — the man who pays for cancer treatments and supports his employees. Some people think that gives him the right to act as he pleases.

It takes determined people from all walks of life to take down the shark and to take down Roger.

For Jaws, it's Brody with his guilt over the Kintner boy, with Alex's mom's funeral attire stuck in his mind — he is dedicated to keeping his town safe. He's scared of the water but goes in because it feels like his duty. Hooper joins because he's an expert, the person who has determined that the other shark caught isn't the threat. He's passionate about the field. Quint is the expert on the water, here for the money. He has the experience, the grit, the boat. These three different motives come together. They attack from all angles — with knowledge, with grit, with brains — and that's how they accomplish their goals.

For Bombshell, we have Gretchen Carlson, who has finally had enough, who has been humiliated and demeaned and shuffled to the worst time slots. She decides to do something, to say something. She gets the ball rolling with her public accusations and lawsuit. This leads to Megyn Kelly's crisis of faith — should she admit what has happened to her? She starts an investigation of her own, and when she finds out how many other women have been affected, she decides her voice is necessary. Having it come from a veteran of the station adds weight, adds truth.

Each person who comes forward has to weigh their options. And okay, Roger gets an incredible severance and is living a nice life. But the fact that Gretchen gets an apology — she even notes, like, that's very rare.

Unfortunately, convenience, ease, and greed all trump humanity in Jaws and in Bombshell. The worst mayor of any town is this dude in Amity. What a freak. And right up there with him are the many employees of Fox News — people more concerned about the bottom line than lives being ruined.

The Kintner boy's mom walks up to Brody and slaps him right in his face and says, look, you knew last week a woman had died in this water and you didn't do anything. In the book, it's revealed that the mayor is being blackmailed by the mafia to keep the beaches open. In the movie, he just sucks. He keeps saying, don't scare anyone, keep the beaches open, I'm sure that shark is gone.

Brody gets that slap and I don't know that I fully blame him. It's fair for him to think the first body that turned up was a boat propeller that killed her. But I do know the town does not want it to be a shark and would rather believe anything else. The mayor fights to keep the beaches open, promises to have the problem dealt with in 24 hours. And then when everyone is out on the beach, when it's been deemed safe because some other shark has been caught, the mayor is truly walking up to people like, hey, go out in the water. Why are you sitting over here? And this old man he's haranguing is like, what? I just put my suntan lotion on. I'm letting it seep in, but okay. And he walks off into the water, and then — boom, shark.

Suntan man lives. He doesn't get bit. But others die. And Brody's kid is in full shock. Brody had been worried — he couldn't help but wonder if Hooper's analysis of the shark's mouth was correct, if they hadn't caught the right shark — but he didn't want to deal with that possibility. He didn't push it. He allowed the beaches to open again. Luckily, his guilt and his goodness do make him swing back in the other direction, demanding the mayor approve hiring a shark-catching expert. He will not let something like this happen on his watch again.

In Bombshell, the network doesn't want to admit its mistakes and be liable. The women don't want to support Gretchen and lose their jobs. Kimberly Guilfoyle makes everyone wear shirts showing their support for Roger and Fox. She's so far in the opposite direction trying to prove he's good.

Here's the deal: if my coworker, my boss, was accused of assault, I think I'd take a beat before I went gung-ho supporting them. This person isn't your best friend. How much can you even really know about your super-rich boss who has their own weird button to close their office door?

But these women don't want to be wrong. And there's a more insidious fear — that if one woman got promoted by allowing Roger's treatment, people will think all the women did. No one wants the public believing they got their job based on what they were willing to do for Roger behind closed doors. It's embarrassing.

One of the most heartbreaking moments in Bombshell is when Margot comes out of Roger's office after he's inappropriate with her and goes to her friend Kate McKinnon. Margot starts to confess what has just happened. Kate interrupts: "It's actually better if you don't involve me in this." At the end of the day, Kate values her job security over her friend.

She had said earlier that she applied to a million jobs and only Fox called back. And now no reputable place wants to hire her because she works at Fox. She feels stuck. She sees her only option is to not support those who have come forward.

People must choose hardship. They must choose the possibility of losing their job, their reputation, of being unpopular. Some must admit something they have held secret for so long. And that's not easy. It all bubbles under the surface. It's the humanity that gets Megyn to admit what has happened — because she thought, in the abstract, I'm sure it's not happening to that many people. But when she starts paying attention and listening and hearing how many women have been treated inappropriately by Roger, by other people at Fox, she can't sit idly by. She chooses humanity over job security.

Both Jaws and Bombshell explore gender in a different way, a more honest way, a way that aligns with real life.

When I was watching Jaws, I actually Googled "nice friendship Jaws" to see if other people saw what I saw. And I was glad that the internet agreed that the bond between these men shows another side of masculinity, one we don't get to see as often. Do I hate these three men? For sure. I do not like them. But I like that once they gain each other's respect, all three are all in as a team. There's no fight to be the one who takes the shark, no battle for dominance. Each man brings something to the table and each man steps aside when someone else's expertise is needed.

There's some arguing, as there is with anyone, but it really was a well-oiled machine because these men trusted one another. Brody is perhaps the most sensitive of the three — he loves his family, takes Mrs. Kintner's slap in stride thinking he deserves it. Quint is an aggressive jerk, but as soon as he realizes Hooper knows his stuff, he chills out and offers a drink. Hooper is a rich dandy, basically — someone who you'd think would not do well on a rickety boat chasing a giant beast, but he is right at home. None of these men are posturing. They're simply themselves. There were a lot of ways for these to be three macho guys off fighting a shark. But no — these are two pretty normal guys and then a weirdo who truly looks like he just got dragged up from the depths of the sea.

Bombshell's exploration of gender is a little more confronting — it's the purpose of the film. Seeing the truth of how women survive, what we do to fit in. The constant remarks to the women about their legs. The heels with band-aids for blisters. There's a truth here that is hard to stomach. Instead of just seeing the bright shiny faces that wind up on news screens, we see the dark underbelly of what goes into creating the image of the perfect conservative woman.

There are sacrifices women make so that our lives will be easier, things we put up with. If you're picking a fight every moment of the day, it's just too exhausting. When we see Gretchen Carlson's show with no makeup and she talks about Day of the Girl and how important it is, we also see the backlash she gets — the anger from viewers and the network about having to see a woman's real face. Our characters work to fit the mold, to keep their jobs, while also wondering at what point is it too much. This is the truth behind femininity — a game of inches, compromises. I'm not saying women don't want to wear makeup and look nice. But at Fox in particular, it is a very specific mold these women must fill. Honestly, in entertainment, it's a specific mold — a way you must be perceived.

What Bombshell Did Better

Jaws led to real innocent lives lost, while Bombshell opened our eyes to suffering we may not have been aware of, or at least weren't confronted with in the same way. Jaws invented a villain while Bombshell brought a real person's crimes further into the light.

The shark in Jaws may as well be Godzilla. The entity itself is a complete fabrication. But the unfortunate thing is that people viewed this movie as gospel. Much like the scene in the film where fishermen went out in droves to get their $3,000, many fishermen decided to take on sharks after seeing this movie to prove that they could. Commercial fishing at a large scale began contributing to deaths of sharks. The general populace's view of sharks as evil entities was really helped along by Jaws. Author Peter Benchley, who wrote the book the movie was based on, has said that if he had known about the actual behavior of sharks, he would have never written the book. He told the Animal Attack Files in 2000: no one appreciates how vulnerable they are to destruction. It shows the power of media. Sharks are this apex predator, but they are in so much danger because of the ways they are used — like shark-fin soup. They get caught in nets meant for other things. Having us hate them does not help.

When Bombshell came out, people seemed genuinely frustrated that it gave humanity to Fox News employees, which I think was an important and interesting lesson. We don't know everyone's story. But if someone is doing evil things, they should be punished for it. The film showed the evil lurking under the surface. I'm sure many of us had heard about Gretchen Carlson's lawsuit and that Megyn Kelly added her voice, but it was easy to ignore as someone else's problem — stuff happening between rich people, rich conservative people. Because to be frank, it tends to be the liberal side that more often gives air to these stories, that more often takes these accusations seriously. So when we were finding out about what happened to conservative women, I think there was a little bit of an attitude of, they were asking for it. But this affects everyone.

In Jaws, the biggest tragedy is the death of the Kintner boy, and the fact that it could have been avoided had people known to stay out of the water. We see the effects of the boy's death for only a few moments with his mother. Brody's family has a couple of close calls — his son is shocked by an attack but not injured. Hooper has a much more scientific stake than an emotional one. Quint dies, but he kind of deserved it. He was a little off the handle. I enjoyed the exploration of Brody's guilt, but he also has the peace of a wife that loves unconditionally, two young boys who are healthy. The stakes Brody, Quint, and Hooper have in capturing the shark are definitely diluted. None of these three have faced real tragedy in what we've seen, besides Quint's USS Indianapolis story.

In Bombshell, we follow the tales of women who have had everything taken from them — their dignity, their voice. We see Gretchen's fear and isolation when at first no one comes to her support. We see Megyn's anguish over whether coming forward would ruin the lives of her family. We see Margot break down sobbing into her phone outside a fancy restaurant, wondering what it means that this has happened to her. These are the people directly affected, and there are dozens more who we visit along the way.

All movies don't have to tell the stories of all people. But Bombshell is something that has stuck with me since my initial viewing, much in the way that the Jaws theme has stuck with us all. I'm glad stories like this are being told from all sides. If you haven't seen it, I hope you will give Bombshell a chance. And honestly, you can always rewatch Jaws.

Hit me up at @tastelesspod on social media. Let's talk about all the incredible people who are in Bombshell — Holland Taylor, Darcy Carden, Lennon Parham, Jennifer Morrison. What a dream cast. And Margot should have gotten that Oscar. The scene of her lifting her skirt is abhorrent and beautifully acted.

A Hero Lies in You: Star Wars vs Spy

Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope vs Spy

Two movies where people become the sort of hero they’ve long admired, filling the shoes of those who have come before to save lives from greedy imperialists, and finding a support system along the way — it's Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope vs Spy.

Episode Transcript & Breakdown

Every episode of Tasteless, I take a critically acclaimed film and compare it to one that shares the same themes but didn't get the attention it deserves — and explain why that second movie is my pick. This week: two movies about people that become the sort of hero they've long admired, filling the shoes of those who have come before them to save lives from greedy imperialists. And they find a support system along the way. It's Star Wars versus Spy.

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

A farmboy joins forces with various allies to save their galaxy from the evil Empire's planet-destroying battle station, while also rescuing the princess leading the rebellion against them.

This movie came out in 1977, has a 92% on Rotten Tomatoes. It's so weird to talk about this movie so objectively, just like — this movie came out in 1977. Like, it's Star Wars.

It's number 25 on the IMDB Top 250 and it won six Oscars, which I hadn't known. Best Art Direction, Best Costume Design, Best Sound, Best Film Editing, Best Visual Effects, and Best Original Score — of course, John Williams, come on. It was nominated for another four, including Best Picture, Best Supporting Actor for Alec Guinness — who watched this and was like, you know who really pops? Alec Guinness. That's Obi-Wan Kenobi. The weird guy in the desert. All right — Best Director, and Best Screenplay. George Lucas wrote and directed this movie. This was his vision, and I just can't imagine how good it would feel to have your passion project become one of the most massive pieces of cinema in history.

I think it's hard to even comprehend how much of filmmaking since the first few Star Wars movies was influenced by it. So I'm going to do my best to look back at it as just a piece. There are a lot of better explorations of the Star Wars universe in podcast form, in book form. I'm here to talk about the first film with a semi-fresh set of eyes — I hadn't seen it in probably 20 years until I revisited it for this.

I was really surprised by the structure because it really throws you right into the world, into the battle between the Rebel Alliance and the Empire. You don't see Luke Skywalker until we're pretty far into what's going on.

I really wanted to watch the original version, but there's like a million versions. The one I watched, the crawl at the beginning says "Episode Four." But when this came out, you didn't know it was episode four — so this has been altered. This is the same as the Han-shot-first thing. Initially, Han Solo shoots Greedo. Then when George Lucas revisited the movies — because this dude is a tinkerer — he changed it so that Greedo shoots first, I guess making it so that Han isn't just a cold-blooded murderer. In this version, it was either they shot at the same time or Greedo shot first. Regardless, I just want to watch the purest version of this film. It's a Blade Runner situation except more complicated because there's a less clear-cut consensus on what version is correct.

By the way, let's talk about Greedo for a second — the green dude that Han Solo shot first. This guy was played by three different people. Actor Paul Blake played him when Han and Greedo are in the same frame. Actress Maria De Aragon wore an animatronic mask for head closeups. And linguist Larry Ward provided Greedo's voice. Why couldn't the guy who did his voice be the one in the suit? And why couldn't the one in the suit wear the animatronic head? I don't understand. It feels like George Lucas made things very complicated for himself.

But we kick off with stormtroopers versus rebels on the ship. The rebels — these freaks — their helmets are so long and so stupid. The stormtrooper outfit has stuck around with us because it is such a cool costume, like Power Rangers style, where every kid should be this costume because it is cool. And then the rebels got these roly-poly helmets going down their heads like they're sad, khaki aliens from the movie Alien. They look like straight-up dummies. I don't know how they got us to root for these guys.

When Luke Skywalker and Han Solo get on the ship and put on stormtrooper outfits — Luke Skywalker with a stormtrooper outfit with the helmet off is so attractive. I am so into Luke Skywalker and Han Solo with stormtrooper outfits on. Great outfit.

Before we even get to Luke, we see C-3PO and R2-D2. It's not often on screen you get to see a robot hunched over. Usually a robot is standing up straight. But in this movie, C-3PO — played by Anthony Daniels in a suit — has bad posture. And I felt seen. I felt like I was seeing myself on screen for the first time as C-3PO. There is so much C-3PO and R2-D2 up front as this weird buddy duo. This dude is just whining and R2-D2 is like, boop boop beep boop. And C-3PO is like, R2-D2? We gotta get off the ship!

But let's talk about Carrie Fisher. Oh my God. I watched the Star Wars movies once and that was it. I'm going to revisit them because watching this first one, I really was like, wow, this laid so much groundwork. Princess Leia is so cool. And I'm surprised to revisit it now and realize I didn't immediately glom onto her, because I know Carrie Fisher better from just being Carrie Fisher — from the books she's written, from her public persona, from just being tremendously witty and cool, from her kind interactions with people.

There is something so lasting, so important about Princess Leia. You feel it from the moment you see her in this movie — the strength, the confidence, the humor, the toughness. It's so wonderful that Carrie Fisher found this role, that this role found her. I can't imagine it being anyone else ever.

Now, it's clear George Lucas did not know Luke and Leia were going to be siblings. They flirt hardcore. They kiss. But the twist of Darth Vader being Anakin, being Luke's father, is one of the best in cinema and adds important weight to Luke's journey — which is why this is one of those movies where the more you watch it, the more it all fits together.

When we see Luke, we get to Tatooine and he is a baby. Mark Hamill is so young and he's like, Uncle Owen, I wanted to go to the Tosche Station for power converters. And Uncle Owen's like, you can see your friends when you're done with your chores, Luke. What is this? Why? I forget that he was a teen.

So he meets R2-D2 and C-3PO because they get bought to work on this farm. Very uncool. Don't like this robot slavery. R2-D2 has this little message he keeps playing — the very famous hologram of Leia being like, help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope. Which is the least helpful message. Help you with what, lady? What is your problem? And Luke sees this video and he's like, who is she? She's beautiful. So clearly George Lucas did not know she was his sister.

Alec Guinness is Obi-Wan Kenobi, this old guy out in the desert, who gets called back into action. He shows Luke the lightsaber his dad left for him. The lightsaber sounds are still so satisfying. I think the lightsaber sounds are why this movie became a phenomenon. Just the sound design. Oh my God.

Luke's Uncle Owen is such a freaking liar. He's like, that guy's not Obi-Wan Kenobi, that's old Ben. He's very different. There's a lot of Kenobis, it's like Smith. But then the uncle and aunt die, and Obi-Wan and Luke are investigating what happened. They see a destroyed sand crawler and Luke's like, do we think the sand people did it? And Obi-Wan is like, no, they wanted us to think they did, but only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise. Which — Ben Kenobi is basically saying these shots are so accurate, no one is more accurate than a stormtrooper. Which is insane in a world that knows stormtroopers are the worst shots on earth. You watch them even in this movie spray laser bullets all over the place and not hit anyone even when people are right in front of them.

Luke finds out his aunt and uncle are dead and he's like, okay great, I'll go with you Kenobi, let's go. They go meet Han Solo, a smuggler with Chewbacca. Harrison Ford is so rude. He keeps calling his ship the Millennium Falcon. It's a falcon, you freak. A bird's a falcon. My ship the Millennium Falcon did the Kessel Run in point parsecs. Okay, great. You hang out with a giant dog. What's your problem? He really is the biggest turd.

In one of the later movies when Leia says I love you and he says I know — he seems like a grump too, even though he wears an earring. He is an adult man with an earring. Why is he so mad all the time? He's living the life. He says at one point in this movie, if we can avoid any more female advice, we might just be able to get out of here. Shut up, dude. Princess Leia is the only cool one.

Multiple people call Princess Leia differently, which really threw me off. There are so many accents in this movie. It reminded me of the Harry Potter books where everyone argued over how to pronounce Hermione. You can't call her Leia and Lay-a and the Millennium Falcon. What are we doing? I don't know why that's okay. Everybody else has covered every other element of Star Wars, so this is where I stake my flag. My important issues.

Everything about the world-building in this movie is so good. This was meant to be an epic series. It really was and it deserved that. If you haven't watched the first one in a while, I really suggest revisiting it. I enjoyed it a lot. I barely even talked about the plot because it's Star Wars — you know the plot. They go in their little ships, they fly around, he shoots up in that hole in the Death Star and it explodes. That's Star Wars.

Please, people who love Star Wars, don't come for me. I really do like it. I understand why people have devoted their lives to it in the way that I have devoted my life to Sandra Bullock and my cat. I get it fully.

Spy

A desk-bound CIA analyst volunteers to go undercover to infiltrate the world of a deadly arms dealer and prevent diabolical global disaster.

This movie came out in 2015 and has a 95% on Rotten Tomatoes. Now you see why I had to bring out the big guns with a Star Wars comparison.

This one is tricky because on this podcast I usually try to highlight movies that either not enough people saw or that were reviewed poorly and I disagree. This movie was reviewed very well by critics, and I find that the pockets of the internet that I interact with, people who share my same interests, all love this movie. But I found it very interesting that when I posted about it on Instagram, I got many DMs saying, this movie is so underrated. So there's this like — all of us are secretly loving this movie and thinking that no one else loves it like we do.

In this context, yes, it was reviewed fairly, but it should have had five sequels. It should be a series in the way that James Bond is a series. It should have gotten an Oscar. It's such a good movie.

Paul Feig is the George Lucas of comedy, and he wrote and directed this film. I have been in love with Paul ever since Sabrina the Teenage Witch, where he played a teacher, Mr. Pool. I love him so much. I love Freaks and Geeks. I love Spy. I love A Simple Favor. I love his dapper suits. He's so funny. There should be seven Spys. How many Star Warses are there? Ten? There should be ten Spys. There should be eleven Spys immediately. Unacceptable that there aren't.

This is Melissa McCarthy's best role. I know people love Bridesmaids, right? But no — Spy is it. The depth of this character, the different levels she gets to play it at — it's truly the culmination of Melissa McCarthy's talents. To play so funny, so crazy, so awkward, so vulnerable, and be such a real human at the same time.

She's one of the office workers, right? She has all the intel and she's speaking to an in-the-field CIA agent, keeping an eye out on him, watching through cameras, letting him know schematics, where to turn, what to do. When her charge, Jude Law — the agent in the field — is killed, she volunteers to go into action to finish the job he started.

When she decides to go undercover, they give her these horrible covers — Carol Jenkins, who she says looks like somebody's homophobic aunt. Penny Morgan, a divorced housewife from Iowa with ten cats. She's like, why? When Jude Law goes in the field, he gets to be a businessman. Why is this what I am? But that's how people see her. And this movie dives into that in such an interesting way.

The way she changes from nervous and unsure of herself to confident when Rose Byrne, the villain, thinks she's blown her cover — this is range. Because all the levels she plays it at, even when the character Melissa is playing is undercover, you understand the heart of who that main initial character was.

Jude Law, her CIA agent in the field, thinks she has cats, talks to her about it all the time. A lot of cat-lady bashing in here, Paul Feig, but I'm going to take it as satire of the type of person that people think she is. He gets her jewelry and she's so touched because she's in love with him — he's gorgeous and kind and cool. She opens it and it's this mean little cupcake necklace. He has really put her in a box of the kind of non-threatening, just shell of a person. And she lets him. Because she has to gain new confidence.

Let's get into the Rose Byrne of it all, because Paul Feig has really done right by Rose Byrne. I feel like Bridesmaids is what brought her back into the American comedic consciousness, because she has been acting incredibly in so many things for so many years. She is a highlight of anything she's in. She gives her all in every single role.

In Spy she gets to be so mean and so funny and just incredible. Every line she delivers with a scowl, with derision, is perfect. At one point she's playing Candy Crush while talking to Melissa. Melissa's like, you're being very rude. They are such a great push and pull. And when Melissa's character brings it up to eleven, Rose Byrne very quickly is like, okay, cool it. Bring it down a notch.

The chemistry slash rivalry between Rose Byrne and Melissa makes this movie. That is the driving force behind why it's so funny, why it sticks in my mind, why it's so enjoyable on a rewatch.

There's a respect between them. The way they joke with each other and make fun of each other is so human and ridiculous. There's a moment at the end where Rose has been captured and she kind of gives this little smile to Melissa because at the end of the day she does like her. They do enjoy each other. I like that they have this weird mutual respect.

What's incredible about Rose Byrne is that not only is she a shining light on the screen, but she coaxes the best possible performances out of her co-stars. Her presence always raises the bar. She is what made Neighbors work — instead of being a nagging wife, her and Seth Rogen are such equal partners and she pulls that out of people. She was the perfect maddening enemy for Kristen Wiig in Bridesmaids. I love her in the Annie remake as the person that pulls Jamie Foxx out of his shell. She's just so talented and elevates everything she's in. I adore her. And if pressed to pick a favorite role of hers, Spy might be it.

This movie also has Jason Statham, who's usually — he's fine in things. Hobbs and Shaw was cute. But he is so funny in this. He's this insane tough guy spy stereotype who just rattles off nonsense and thinks he's so tough but also never quite knows what's going on. At one point he totally screws up and Melissa McCarthy kind of shrugs to the room of bad guys and says, he means well. He does — he wants to be this tough guy spy, he really thinks he's suave, but nothing he does goes quite right.

I love how Allison Janney talks to Jason Statham, because Jason is another spy in the CIA and Allison Janney is in charge of them. She is so mean to him. She's so mean to Melissa McCarthy. In this very funny, brisk way.

We have Miranda Hart, a brilliant comedian actress, as Melissa McCarthy's confidant — another person who does the same job she does, gathering intel. She has a fling with 50 Cent and there's a line in this movie I think about all the time, it's so small, but when she goes, simmer down, 50 Cents — I think it's so funny.

We have an array of fantastic Paul Feig regulars. Michael McDonald, who comes up with the tech options for Melissa going into the field — but instead of cool stuff, like a shoe that's a gun, she's given anti-fungal spray that is actually freezing powder. Stool softener pills that are actually antidotes to poison. A watch, but it has a picture from the film Beaches on it. Then we have Jessica Chaffin, Sam Richardson, Adam Ray, Katie Dippold, Jamie Denbo, Zach Woods — all these comedic people I adore. Morena Baccarin from Firefly as a rival agent. Peter Serafinowicz as Aldo, this ridiculous man. Bobby Cannavale as a bad guy — of course, Rose Byrne's husband. He's so good as a bad guy named De Luca with slicked-back hair. I would give him the nuclear codes as well.

The only knock I have against this movie — the only bad thing I can say — is that there is a barf scene where Melissa McCarthy barfs all over. Why does every movie gotta have a barf? Why?

I also, when trying to find a bad review, found one from the World Socialist Web Site that says, does it occur to Feig or anyone involved in the making of Spy that not everyone dotes on the forces of law and order nor finds their operations as endlessly fascinating as he apparently does? Is this what I sound like when I talk about movies I don't like? I love that this person said this comedy doesn't work because I think it glorifies the CIA. This is a comedy of errors. No one is looking at this and going, I want to work for the CIA. That would be insane. It is a comedy movie, you freaks.

Shared Themes

Luke Skywalker and Melissa McCarthy are looking for adventure, for something different than the rut they have found themselves stuck in, but neither is sure what they're looking for. They've always been told that they are where they should be — Luke on the moisture farm, Melissa in what is called the basement, the part of the CIA that's not in the field. Both know that they're frustrated, unsatisfied, feeling stuck and unappreciated. They're not seen as real, formidable humans, but instead as shadows — they're looked past. But they don't know what to do about it.

They are in some dark way freed to become who they want to be, to live up to their potential, by the death of a loved one. Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru — I wrote "Aunt Unspecified" in my notes and had to Google it, and I was like, I bet she has a name. Aunt Beru. We definitely hear Uncle Owen about 18 times. We don't hear Aunt Beru. But whatever — they are killed by stormtroopers right when Luke has to make a choice. He may not have been able to bring himself to leave behind the farm and the only family he's known, but when he finds his home burned, his family dead, he realizes there is nothing left for him on Tatooine. He is freed to follow Obi-Wan Kenobi.

In Spy, Melissa has served as a consultant to Jude Law. She's watched over him. Has put her life on the sidelines to make sure he can fully live his. She fires his gardener while she tries — it doesn't work out. She picks up his dry cleaning. So when he is killed, she has to restructure. She has to figure out who she is without him. And she decides to go into the field to avenge him.

Luke and Melissa are finally given no other choice than to live out their desire for more, for action, for making something of themselves. What's up with uncles, by the way? Uncle Owen, Uncle Ben — don't kill someone's uncle if you're a bad guy. It's not a good move. It's going to lead to a lot of issues.

What I love about Luke and Melissa is their almost naive enthusiasm, their total lack of ego surrounding what they do. They want to be part of something, they want to make a difference, but neither is out for themselves. They're genuine people who feel a sense of duty to those who have come before them, those who have protected them, those who have fought for the side of good. Luke and Melissa throw themselves fully into their missions just because it's the right thing to do.

In Star Wars, Luke Skywalker wants to be an Imperial Military Academy space pilot, but he has to stay home and help on the moisture farm, collect all that moisture. The moment he learns that his father was more than he thought — that his father was a brave man who died in battle — Luke feels hope that he too can make a difference. It's not about making a name for himself, but about showing himself that he can do it, that he has it in him. Just to scratch this itch of wanting to be more.

In Spy, Melissa wants to carry through the missions of the CIA, an organization she does believe in. She's so committed to her work. She keeps helping Jude Law as bats attack her head in one of the opening scenes. Everyone else is eating fun cakes and she's just busy working because she believes in it. There's no glory in that for her, but it's what she thinks is right. She wants to follow in the footsteps of Jude Law and of the agents that came before her.

Luke Skywalker and Melissa McCarthy tap into a different piece of themselves in a way that is inspirational, in a way that shows there is something special in everyone.

The Luke Skywalker thing is hard because some of the movies make it out to be that anyone can be special, while others are like, no, there's certain really famous families and their lineage is special and everyone else can suck it. But in this movie, yes, Luke has the Force, this power he was unaware of that he's trying to learn to control. But he doesn't know that when he commits to joining Kenobi in battle. He doesn't understand the ways it will help him. He is willing to help regardless. He doesn't think he's some superhero. He thinks he's a farm boy.

If Luke hadn't come upon C-3PO and R2-D2, he would have died in his sand hut along with his aunt and uncle. But whether through chance or fate, Luke becomes an accomplice to Obi-Wan Kenobi. And in a battle that has been raging between the rebels and Darth Vader, Luke is a new factor. It is Luke who shot the Death Star right in its little death hole. One man brought down the entire Death Star. That is inspirational. Where are those posters? Like the cats that say "hang in there"? It's just, you too could shoot the one weird design flaw in a giant spaceship. Not as catchy, I guess.

In Spy, Melissa McCarthy thought she was never meant to go into the field. She left those dreams behind when Jude Law kind of suckered her into being his helper on the ground. But it is her immense knowledge of what is happening, of the politics at play, of the nuclear situation that makes her such an asset when she does get to go undercover. When all of the CIA's agents have been compromised, they don't know what to do. And Melissa steps up. Her experiences, her knowledge — that's just as valuable as the people who the CIA had deemed more worthy of the field than her.

She knows she hasn't been trained in ten years. Allison Janney is like, I would send you for training, but we gotta get going. She hasn't shot a gun in a decade, but she is willing to go out and do this. And because she does, she's in the right place at the right time to thwart Bobby Cannavale's evil nuke plans. She follows him, jumps onto his plane, pulls the nuke out, drops it in the ocean with a whole lot of diamonds. That is her. That is her doing something. Making a difference.

What I really appreciate in these films is that they emphasize the power you have as an individual, but they also show how important it is to not just be, but to feel supported. Luke and Melissa become involved with people very different from them, which helps expand their horizons and allows them to grow further confidence in themselves.

When you're around the same people all the time that all see you the same way, you can become stuck in that view of yourself. Meeting new people, expanding your horizons, can allow you to see yourself in new ways. Uncle Owen and Jude Law kept telling Luke and Melissa that they belonged where they were, that they shouldn't branch out, that they were meant only for one life — a life under the radar.

But then we meet Han Solo and Jason Statham — two men who are aggressors, very different from the mild-mannered temperaments of Luke Skywalker and Melissa McCarthy. And they complement those temperaments so well, bringing out more sides of one another and ultimately being one of the most important bonds in each film. Han and Jason show the normally controlled and rule-following Luke and Melissa that there are other ways to be, that they don't have to stay confined to what they've been taught is right — that sometimes they can go with their guts and just trust in themselves.

Chewbacca and Miranda Hart are supportive individuals who are stalwart, who can reach things on high shelves, and who will never flee, who will always be there doing their best, whatever that may be.

What Spy Does Better

Spy doesn't have a version of Leia because Melissa herself is both Luke and Leia. So let's get into that.

Star Wars — incredible movie. I cannot overstate its importance in culture. But Star Wars should be about Princess Leia. Luke is such a nothing in the context of this first film. Whereas Spy finally gave us a movie about the side character that we've wanted a movie about, expanded something that we haven't gotten to see.

When Star Wars opens and we see some robots whining and then we see the utter coolness of Princess Leia, I was like, wow, how dare they peddle this as Luke's story. Even as Han's story — Leia is the story. Luke is the most like the viewer perhaps, but he is hollow. He is half of a person and we see the beginnings of him becoming whole. But in this movie, really, he's just kind of a generic protagonist. He follows the rules, but now he's going to get cool.

Melissa in Spy lets other people walk all over her, but she's smart and she's passionate and all these things that add up to a real person — a real person who becomes a hero. She is both Luke and Leia.

She wants to impress herself. She does what needs to be done because she knows she's the person who must do it. And there's humanity and there's heart. We know her without actually having met her. We understand her.

What helps with that is the way the viewer interacts with the characters of Spy. I felt much more privy to their thoughts — between the mumbled rants from Melissa McCarthy about how other people see her every time she's given a new undercover persona, to how Rose Byrne smiles softly at Melissa as she's shoved into the back of a CIA cop car. We are given pieces of information about these people that flesh out the world and tell us who they are without them needing to spell it out.

What I wish from Star Wars that I loved in Spy is having some genuine self-reflection. With Luke, we really don't get his interior life. We mostly see him as others see him. Whereas with Melissa McCarthy, we can see her internal struggle so clearly. Star Wars has a bevy of interesting characters that we grow with over the course of 80 more movies, but Luke himself is someone we don't know much about in the first film. So much of him is hidden — to be unveiled later. Some of it known to George Lucas at the time, some of it not. We don't know his struggles. We don't know anything besides he's an insolent, bored, sullen teen. Is he 40? Is he 15? Apparently he's 18, but I don't buy it.

It's hard to view this first Star War on its own, not as a setup for greater things. And clearly on its own it did make quite an impact, winning a ton of Oscars for the world that it built. But these characters become so much more than what we see in this first film. The first Star Wars lays the building blocks beautifully — but for me doesn't stand on its own as a particularly great exploration of any of its characters besides Leia, whose tenacity and grace can be witnessed from moment one.

Perhaps these characters feel like stereotypes because they built the world — they influenced the world that we now pull our stereotypes from. But the rogue smuggler Harrison Ford is tired. I get it, he's cooler than everyone. He can't tell anyone he loves them. I get it. I don't get depth from this.

What is fantastic about Spy is that it takes a character who would be in the background in another film and explores her thoughts and feelings. We see how she reacts to how others see her — the constant positioning of her as a divorcee, a cat lover, Jude Law buying her the least sexy necklace of all time, a really mean little cupcake charm on a chain. We see her disappointment in these things so clearly. We see the way she tries to mask her hurt, the way she wants to be known for who she is instead of some sad stereotype people want to pin on her.

We see another side of our villain Rose Byrne. We know her father wanted a son and she tried her hardest to live up to his expectations and take on a more traditionally masculine role. She's a broken girl with a Bulgarian clown for a mother at the end of the day. We see vulnerability from Jason Statham — a man constantly throwing himself into things and shaking himself off when it doesn't go right. There's something about Melissa that brings out the best in him.

The approach of Luke and Melissa is also very different. Luke has questions about his past but not questions about his future. Whereas Melissa's whole world is thrown into a tailspin as she doesn't know who she can trust.

In Star Wars, Luke Skywalker is given the benefit of a clear path. He bumps into Ben Kenobi and follows him into battle. Once he's on board the Death Star, he comes into his own, gets Han motivated to help him save Leia. He doesn't worry a lot about consequence. He's just following what he believes has been set out for him.

In Spy, Melissa isn't given an easy path. No one wants her to do what she does, really. She has to convince them she can go into the field. She takes her choice to leap into action seriously — she knows the risks, but feels like she owes it to Jude Law. Once she's in the field, she realizes what an important force she is. She can't follow the rules. She has to make up her own path because everything the CIA has been trained in has been thrown out the window when they've all been compromised. There's not someone above her giving her orders. There's not a ghost voice whispering in her ear to trust the Force. She has to do what she thinks is right and see how it all plays out from there.

I hope you will give Spy a chance if you haven't seen it. I feel like everyone has just secretly seen it and isn't talking about it. It is a really good movie. As is Star Wars — look, I'm going to start revisiting all the other Star Warses now.

Hit me up at @tastelesspod if you want to talk about Rose Byrne, Spy 2, or Princess Leia. I bet someone out there has a hologram of Princess Leia. Like someone has built themselves their own R2-D2 that plays a hologram. I'm going to look into that.